Crawling From The Wreckage



Greetings, fellow dole scum, shirkers, idlers and deadweight, with yer 50″ plasma screen TVs and yer holidays in Majorca and yer lives of sybaritic luxury to rival Rome under Caligula.

And all on 70 quid a week…how the fuck do you do it, you diabolically clever dead-beats, you?

If only, eh? Those of us living on 70 quid a week experience a rather different reality, an existence where every unforseen expense means going without something.

Need a pair of shoes? That’s you on Tesco’s Value porridge and black tea for a fortnight. Laundry been piling up, neccesitating a trip to the laundromat? More Tesco’s instant noodles at 11p a pack, less fresh veg and fruit; and so it goes, juggling bills, counting pennies, collecting coupons and thanking fuck for free libraries and hacks that allow you to piggy-back on your neighbour’s wireless internet connection (bless you Aircrack for WEP and Reaver for WPA/WPA2).

But the Tory/LibDem vermin subscribe to the Biblical notion that:

For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.Mark 4:25

…which is a perfect description of this govt’s policies: sack 100s of thousands of public sector workers, close factories that employ the handicapped and cut benefits to the most vulnerable; give vast amounts of taxpayer’s money to inept, lying fraudsters like A4E, Serco (due to replace the Probation Service), Virgin (who can’t deliver a decent rail service but have been appointed to deliver children’s health-care; what could possibly go wrong?) and G4S, who, after 2 and a half years of preparation still managed to fuck it all up. Lovely.

Which brings me to our beloved Work Program, another utterly predicatable cluster-fuck of epic proportions. The whole rotten edifice is collapsing before our eyes (takes onion from pocket and sobs brokenly). The dismal, greedy, half-witted chumps are finally doing the math and realising that they can’t make money out of this pig’s ear of a policy (just as the rest of us have been saying all along).

Did these greedy cretins seriously think that a policy jotted on the back of a postage stamp by a pair of jargon-spouting Tory imbeciles and moral bankrupts like Grayling and Ian Humpty-Dumpty could end in any other way? Those two could fuck-up a wank.

As for me, the only contact I’ve had with the pimps since March 22nd has been a phone call in mid-April, cancelling an appointment; since then, radio silence. Fine by me…they were a bad joke to begin with.

So stay strong, comrades, and play the long game; show willing (within carefully considered limits), smile and nod, agree with whatever the zombie/pimps say and take comfort in the knowledge that you’re going to see the bastards swirling down history’s pitiless toilet.

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202 Responses to Crawling From The Wreckage

  1. Marcus says:

    Hi Jack,
    more or less in the same situation as you. I have not heard of the slavers/pimps in month and count my blessing. Other people like Mr No have not been that fortunate.
    However there is something I disagree with your appraisal. The purpose or “driving force”, if you prefer, of the spate of recent welfare policies (both under the “more Tory than Tories” Gordon Brown and the present criminals in government, is not saving money.
    Sure they have a budget, state debts and financial balancing to do, but both I (a total economy ignoramus) and the average citizen may have come up with a bevy of ideas for money generating policies (taxes on wealth and large properties owners, repeal prohibitionist laws, infrastructure and alternative energy production investments, etc) that would not degrade the Country to a third world status in the 21th Century!!
    No, the purpose is strictly ideological. Over and over top Tory politicians (and millionaires) have repeated that the dismantling of the welfare state intend to foster “work ethos”. Toward the realisation of this vague principle they are investing billions of public money.
    Like Hitler or Stalin responding to ideologically imagined Jewish or “people’s enemies” threats, modern days Britain plutocracy thinks that the reason why this island is not a paradise (as they imagine it) is because of the sabotage wrecked on the economy by the poor, the mythical scroungers.
    So not their greedy accumulation of wealth stolen from the rest of the population or their implementation of the failed neo-conservative dogmas they learned at school or simply their stupidity, as a causal root of evil is ever crossing their Thacherites “minds”.
    The results, like in Hitler Germany or Stalin Russia and sadly a lot of other examples since, will be an increasing of repression of their imaginary enemies.
    The downtrodden self-defence will be taken as a confirmation of their ideology-driven sick fantasies and will justify more and more repression until, if not checked, extermination.
    Already now, small changes in welfare results in foreseeable and preventable deaths (for example but are implemented, with full understanding of their effects by the plutocracy in power, none-the-less.
    We are going to see more and more and can only hope not to be amongst the thousands of their victims.
    So I believe, it is not as you say:
    “The dismal, greedy, half-witted chumps are finally doing the math and realising that they can’t make money out of this pig’s ear of a policy”.
    Saving money is not the main object to their policies but physically eliminating the “poor” is.
    This will save them money, now and more so in the future.

  2. I’ve only had one appointment with the WP provider, during which they told me how useless they were. Wonderful. Haven’t been back.

  3. Jack Cade says:

    Hi,Marcus. I don ‘t disagree with you at all. My point about making/saving money was specific to the poverty pimps, whose only ideology (if one can so dignify their debased creed) is to make money.

    The Tory/LibDem scum are motivated by sheer hatred/fear of the ‘other’ (i.e. anyone who isn’t exactly like them. They loathe us and the feeling is returned in spades. Never forget, we outnumber them by about a million to one and you know what they say: beware the fury of a patient man. They’re sowing the wind and I’m convinced that they’ll reap the whirlwind.

    It’s their sheer bone-headed stupidity that amazes me. They’re busily shitting on the very people (the police and the army) on whom they depend to keep them in power. Or do the dozy fuckers imagine that G4S will do the job? Those useless twats can’t even get a decent security team together to ensure that nobody brings non-McDonalds food into the Olympics.

    @Ghost Whistler, you mean you had honest pimps? Wow…just…wow.

    • No, they aren’t honest at all. A complete waste of time. They simply admitted that, despite all the propaganda, the ony thing they could provide was jobsearching…in a smelly old church run by the Salvation Army of which they were a part (the WP is provided by Salvation Army Employment Plus).

    • ACAB says:

      The police are the bully boys of the Establishment, fuck ’em, the deserved to be smothered in shit, the over-paid molly-coddled thugs that they are. If the day ever comes when the untermenschs are being rounded-up for transportation to the extermination camps it will be the police and army that will be doing the rounding-up and extermination. No doubt “only doing their job.”

  4. Gissajob says:

    Too much (cheap) red wine to match the erudite contributions of those above. Would just like to say “welcome back mr. Cade – I forgive your cockneyness”.
    Will continue to undermine and destabilise the staus quo in my own particular rough, uneducated Northern fashion.

  5. Jack Cade says:

    Good piece on our beloved (cough-cough) but faltering Work Program by Polly ‘Tuscan Villa’ Toynbee in today’s Grauniad. Read it HERE.

    That the WP is failing is amply demonstrated by the fact that on Monday, it’ll be four months since I last saw my pimps, because, obviously, I’m not ‘low hanging fruit’. Q.E.D.

    • Lucozade says:

      My favourite few lines from that were:

      “So Channel 4’s brilliant FactCheck concludes: “His figures don’t show the benefits cap is already successful at getting people back to work.” When challenged, the DWP had to fall back on faith: “The secretary of state believes that the benefits cap is having an effect.” Faith-based policymaking is something he is good at.”

      Presumably IDS gets his faith from the buy-bull!

  6. Mr No says:

    Hey guys.
    The coupon based signing on has arrived at my JC.
    Because I am a rebellious idiot who has simply had enough I refused it. Have to speak to a manager on Monday to see if they allow me to retain the human interaction of a regular signing experience. I think they will try and tell me I cannot. We will see.
    Although the signing clerk totally understood my concerns as to why I might want to do this. Fill it in and post it in a box. I reckon it wont be long before this proves to be problematic for some.

    Tried to give me some spiel about having to put applications on this questionable ‘form’ and I had to point out it isn’t legislated to actually apply unless one finds something to apply for. It’s job search FFS! It’s JobSEEKERS allowance as someone quite rightly pointed out here recently. Lol. I used that today.
    That stumped her. But she was new in the job, Seemed rather decent actually. Seemed quite shocked by what i was telling her.
    The guy who usually signs me has moved downstairs doing fuck knows what. He was pretty decent too.

    Having to scrape through on zero income is interesting as experiences go. I am spending the little i had saved for some new clothes. Currently have 20 quid to last until the 22nd Aug. Though between now and then I am sure the pimps can squeeze in another doubt.
    Going to post pimp complaint tomorrow so it should get there Monday. My GL24 appeal forms will be filled and sent off next week too. All 3 of them.

    Stay cool people.

    • I still don’t get these new forms. So people now turn up at the JC with their jobsearch and then have to pu their name/number on the form, then copy everything across from their jobsearch, then put it in the box and hope it, along with their money, gets processed?

  7. Mr No says:

    Hey guys.

    Today I received a letter from my pimp. I haven’t opened it yet!

    And as is life for many, working or otherwise, we all have other stuff going on, good and bad. And I just haven’t quite been the full shilling the past few weeks. I was just starting to get a handle on my life again and then this sanction crap. And some other issues, nothing serious, but emotionally draining. No income hasn’t helped.
    Something good? My rather narrow social life has widened a little this summer, a new avenue to explore, great timing.
    A chance to get out a bit more and no money! But getting out I have been. Doing everything on a shoestring. Ha! All in all a rather surreal summer.
    Anyway, just rambling a bit there, chatting, blah blah.

    The letter? I haven’t opened it because i was feeling a bit down the past few days and really didn’t need any more crap. I am going to open it later.
    It’s from the branch, not the head office where the complaint was sent.
    So, is this the ‘full response’ i was informed I would be getting?
    They probably sent my letter to the branch and told the manager to deal with it. That’ll be good.
    Or would it be so daft to suggest it might just be less a response and simply more crap with which i will have to take them further to task? This letter will surely have the obligatory threatening stuff on it, whatever it states.

    I think that it will be unsatisfactory, whatever it says. Maybe there will even be a new mandatory arrangement informing me that if i comply they will get the sanction lifted. Or along those lines.
    That’s what i reckon. I think i will have me a snifter and open it in a little while. Prepare, be calm, open and read. I’ll be back.

  8. Mr No says:

    I meant to put this on the thread with my other posts on my experiences.

    Though ‘Crawling from the wreckage’ rather succinctly describes the way I am feeling at the present time. Lol.

  9. Marcus says:

    Mr No., I can only imagine how difficult it can be to be under sanctions. However you are doing some good by keeping the rest of us informed and we all appreciate your guts in the situation.
    Remember that if your appeal is upheld you should get some back-payments. It seems however that at the moment the appeal channels are swamped (you must have seen a lot of complaints about the slowness of the appeal proceedings on-line) so do not hope for things to change too soon but keep calm and focus on your resolve.
    You maybe have time to explore some other avenues. For instance have a look at this blog:

    These are indeed tough times for all of us (for most of the Nation, indeed).
    These evil days will pass.

    Stay Strong and give us some tips on survival because all too soon it’ll be probably our turn.

    • Mr No says:

      Cheers Marcus.
      Tips on survival? Having a roof and a meal and family and friends i cannot really offer any. I think I have lost weight, less to do with the food, though I am eating less. But the stress, the anger etc. It’s like being fitted up for some crime you haven’t committed.
      I am lucky compared to many on benefit who are having these troubles. Although my life in general isn’t a bag of cherries at the moment!
      Always thankful that my bad situation isn’t worse.
      I will always honestly report my experiences. And should something written prove useful then all to the good.

  10. Mr No says:

    So, that letter I received from the pimp…

    Interesting! My presence is requested. The branch manager wants to meet with me sometime in the next 2 weeks. The NEW branch manager! Hmmm?
    In my letter I stated how I found the previous one ineffectual. I wonder if my adviser is still there?

    The letter is nowt special, with the usual contractual corporate bollocks paragraph,
    How he wants to discuss the issues point by point etc. How jobsearch in the office is reasonable seeing as i will not provide contact details. Maybe so? But not 3 times a week for 4 hours until further notice, mate!!!! How this is a ”Recorded contact”. I’ll have to look up the rules and see is there’s anything about that. I’ll attend, but minimally. Comply just enough to get some income! Maybe?

    I’m going to give this new manager bloke the full Mr No experience. I just do not give a shit anymore. Well. I do, but I don’t. If that makes sense?
    And ‘alleged’ comments! With regard to me outlining what happened on that day. Hmmm? To mention the recording or not, yet? See how it goes I think.

    But the one thing that really pisses me off about it is, is, is…? Let me transcribe the last paragraph.

    “As you have not given details to be used for contact purposes – email or telephonically – this letter will be sent today first class post. Your are requested to call the office to arrange a meeting with myself by Friday 21st September. As we are constrained by the means of contact the time limit I feel is appropriate and failure to respond will unfortunately raise a further Sanction Doubt.
    The rasied doubts relate to failing to comply with reasonable requests and in this instance, in order to deal with the issues, this is a reasonable request. i wish you all the best and look forward to seeing you at a mutually arranged time within the next two weeks.”

    And that’s where the letter ends.
    I shall be discussing this paragraph with this guy. I make the complaint and they more or less have ‘mandated’ me to attend to sort it out. They simply want this commodity to get out there and earn for ’em. And at the end of the day this meeting will probably simply see little resolution and yet more threats, however veiled they may be.
    Reasonable request? What a joker. Oh we are going to have such a laugh at our meeting.
    I am going to be sooooo damn polite whilst I tell him exactly what is going on and what i think, that ‘opinion’ they always like to tell us we are entitled to. Fucking idiots.

    So, I think I’ll ring him tomorrow and arrange this ‘requested’ meeting.

    My letter was rather detailed, i think they are trying to be clever here. I was honest, will they be?

    Take care people.

    • Gissajob says:

      Hi Mr No

      “How jobsearch in the office is reasonable seeing as i will not provide contact details.” There is no rational connection between not waiving your rights in the non provision of personal details and having to do excessive in office “jobsearches”. It is clearly designed to be a punishment* for not giving them details and as such is grounds for a complaint in itself.
      * i.e. give me your details or I will make you attend 3 times a week.
      Give em hell

      • Mr No says:

        Hey Gissa.

        That is exactly what it is.
        Of course, they wont agree. If they think i am going to roll over and have my tummy tickled they are mistaken.

        I am thinking of asking them myself when i attend to fish out the travel expenses sheet that applies to one of the sanctions where I DID attend.
        I will wait while they look! Or it can be sought whilst i am in this meeting. Also the register for that day? A mistake was made, so they can assist in rectifying this ‘mistake’. Hmmm? Lol.
        Or will they conveniently not be able to find such? Or fob me off in some other fashion?
        I cannot beat around the bush, I really have to give them it both barrels really, so to speak.
        It could actually go in my favour too if they cannot find such. Maladministration possibly? Or they’ll lie and say it doesn’t exist because I wasn’t there. I so was, have the recording too! Or should I wait and let JC+ request such documents?
        What do you guys think?

        I will also be recording this meeting too. of course. Covertly.
        But when the alleged comments come up. Hmmm? What to do? If they know you have recorded once they will assume you are always doing so. A tricky one.
        My instinct is to let them say what they have to say and leave any mention of recorded evidence till the tribunal stage. Should it get to that. Give;’em a bit more rope, potentially.


        • Marcus says:

          Mr No, there is no point in revealing you have recording. Use this when important, for instance when they provide a written notification to the JC that they have not recorded your presence on the day. That it when they can be caught red handed.

    • UNM says:

      “UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT” – that’s reassuring, where have we heard that one before lol :-)

    • Don’t forget to tell them you are using someone else’s phone.

  11. Mr No says:

    Pimp meeting arranged for next week!

    Off the premises too! I was given the option so thought why not.
    Although I wont be able to shout and throw things! Lol.

    This new manager ‘sounded’ rather decent and friendly on the phone. But of course however ‘charming’ he might be this one wont be charmed.
    The day before the meeting I intend to call him to request a copy of the travel expenses form pertaining to a date I attended, but still got sanctioned for. If he asks why I will simply say it’s pertinent and will assume that they do indeed keep such things filed away.I wont push it though.
    If he is obstructive I will try to get JC+ to source this document. It is evidence. What’s the betting that they will not be able to find it for me?

    Although I will not trust this bloke as far as i could throw him I am always wiling to give benefit doubts… Lol. I meant benefit of the doubt, of course.
    There is a one in a hundred chance that he might at least try to sort things out with some level of decency.

    Fun, fun, fun. Hmmm?

    • “This new manager ‘sounded’ rather decent and friendly on the phone. But of course however ‘charming’ he might be this one wont be charmed.”

      I learned that lesson dealing with Working Links. They were so two faced I’d be hard pressed not to recommend schizophrenia medicine

      • Mr No says:

        I’m expecting a rather ‘interesting’ meeting.
        And you know what? Despite the horrid situation I really do not care anymore. About these nasty organisations that is, of course.
        I care very much about our plight. And life. And good people.

        Gosh, I am just going to talk, tell it exactly like it is. He is restricted to some extent. I am not. Though my intention is to be calm and jovial, a little borderline sarcasm perhaps.
        I am in charge of me, not them. This is my show now.
        I’m going to ask this guy if he will be willing to help me correct the ‘mistakes’ that his company has made. that should be fun. Though I guess there would be conditions to any such idea, might try to ‘cut me a deal’, He might be the typical ‘good cop’ type, will try and talk me down, but as said, I am in charge of me.

        I’m kind of trying to prepare for it, I will jot a few points down, what I wish to achieve etc. But at risk of sounding a bit ‘new age’ I will probably let go and let the universe assist and guide my hand. A loose plan, but basically playing it by ear.

        Some of you know that I have a roof and eat. If this wasn’t the case then things might be different, but seeing as they don’t really have me by the balls I can afford to do what I want with regard to the pimps. Afford? Ha! I’m going to have to sell the sports car and me plasma, cut down on the champagne and wild nights out. A bit! Lol.

        Cheers guys. Will report back soon.

  12. Marcus says:

    Mr No, ask them what will happen if you “re-engage”. Would your benefits be reinstated?
    I know that it is theoretically possible but I do not know of any case where it has actually happened.
    I admire your gut in the situation.
    Keep strong and show them that you’re still a decent human being while them are contemptible pimps.

  13. Gissajob says:

    All power to you Mr. No.
    I had first meeting with new “adviser”. I can’t put my finger on it but something about attending their premises makes my hackles rise and at the same time undermines my confidence. I usually end up saying too much and being too aggressive.
    So – after some initial sparring (verbal only – I am not the physical type) we did the usual – “Let us have your CV/No/why?/Don’t ask – I’ll show it to you but you can’t keep it” routine and moved on.
    To give advisor credit I wasn’t asked to produce any evidence of jobsearch (wouldn’t have been a problem if I had been asked). I wasn’t asked for contact numbers (I think adviser may have wrongly assumed they had them!). I wasn’t urged to apply for any unsuitable jobs. I think we have reached some sort of accomodation where I will attend once a month, be a good boy and not rock the boat. In return there will be no mandatory jobsearches or irrelevant courses.
    If this works then I would call that an “outcome”. However the price of peace is eternal vigilance so I will remain “on guard”

  14. Mr No says:

    Good grief. This morning I receive 2 letters.

    (Edit – Bit of a long post!)

    One is a reply (of sorts!) to my sanction reconsideration letter.
    The other is from the pimp mandating me to attend an appointment next month. Just that, attend on this date, no mention of the thrice weekly jobsearching. And half the letter duplicates the sanction regime as it appeared in that letter we all got recently. The pimps are nothing if not unoriginal. The idiots.
    Well, pimp new manager can explain all this to me next week. I want my JSA reinstated.

    Yes Marcus, you re-engage and then when the pimp ‘decides’ that you have done so sufficiently you get your allowance back. Possibly? Lol.
    Well, until the next time you disagree with them i guess!

    And onto the response to my letter requesting reconsideration of my sanctions…

    Where to start? Hmmm? It’s from the same guy that ignored my reasons and put the sanctions through. As Glasgow just send it back to my JC+ and they send it to the original DM. I think I stated this previously.

    It’s as clear as mud, But has a rather interesting statement included with regard to the sanction for not attending an appointment where the letter arrived on the same day as the workshop appointment… Therefor I could not attend.

    It states…

    Dear Mr No
    I am writing to tell you that we are not going to make a decision following your request for reconsideration regarding your failure to participate in Work Programme on –/–/12 at 13.30pm.
    This is because there is a case like yours that has an appeal to the Court of Appeal. We will make a decision on your application for a reconsideration of the sanction imposed when we know the result of that appeal.

    However you do still have the right of appeal against the original decision to impose a sanction from –/07/12 to –/07/12.

    WTF? It’s simple, they sent a letter it arrived too late. Simple.
    Oh I cannot wait for any tribunal I manage to attain. I will of course be attending.

    Then it just goes on to state about the GL24 procedures and blah blah blah etc.
    But they will let me appeal a sanction period of two weeks! I haven’t had a bean out of them since late June! So what exactly do i have the right to appeal against? The sanction for that day when I attended the jobsearch? What about the 6 month jobbie?
    I’m going to phone this wanker of a DM next week and get him to explain this all to me in detail, hopefully.

    I may have to finally get to the CAB, but from what i gather they are of rather limited effectiveness. Of course one might be lucky and find a good and concientious person in my local branch. Possibly? Ha!

    I’m kind of OK compared to many out there who have been sanctioned, but I must admit this is becoming rather tedious now. Phew. It seems there is no maximum sanction. Although I am sanctioned till late Jan next year, if i continue to ignore anything else, or at least politey decline they will just keep racking them up.

    And all I did was stand up for myself, assert my rights and some (potentially) racist bitch made all this happen to me. And there’s nothing I can do, except try and stay strong and survive.

    Hope the above is clear and understandable.

    Cheers guys.

  15. Marcus says:

    Mr No, at least you’ve got a reply. One of most lamented aspects of be sanctioned I read, is that in a lot of cases claimants are simply ignored. Because there is not effective penalties incurred by the pimps of the JCP (a part maybe under maladministration procedures but it seems that nobody has ever managed that) or practical legal remedies, they seem to be laughing on the face of our misery.
    However other people that like you have stood up and shown that they have some legislative knowledge, seem to be returned with some more acceptable compromise to their enslaved fold.
    I am not quite sure what the pimps are afraid of. Maybe they are not confident of the permanence of the political backing for their actions and maybe expect some turn around of public opinion (maybe after some entire family dies horribly of hunger after some spurious sanctions have been applied, I don’t know).
    Probably themselves cannot yet come around to the idea that killing people by deprivation has become legal and acceptable.
    Keep us posted.
    You’re a hero. Keep strong.

  16. Mr No says:

    Oh Marcus. I’m no hero. I get your sentiment though.

    Got that meeting tomorrow. I must say that I am reasonably calm of the mind as it were, but the stress is causing a lot of bodily tension and I am a little anxious.
    I have the truth, may not always set one free, but it’s a start. And always good to have.
    I am just taking copies of letters, for my eyes, my reference. A few points jotted down to keep me on track if i flounder a little. Otherwise playing it by ear.

    I am expecting him to have, or at least have read my letter and to be knowledgeable as to its content. after all he wants to address some of the points raised! I’ll be most dismayed if he expects me to do the talking.
    I’m there to respond and seek mutually agreeable resolution. Even assistance with regard to my incorrectly put through sanction doubts! Ha! I am going to enquire after this, the response will be fun…. ‘No, Mr manager, I don’t simply mean start complying and my JSA will be reinstated. What I mean is your predecessorr and my adviser fucked up. I was sanctioned for not attending when I did etc’. Hmmm? Or not?
    I’m appealing it all the way and beyond. Regardless of pimp actions, sanction lifted or whatever. What have I to lose? Their threats now have little effect on me. Not that they ever did, hence my situation! Of course, it is stressful. To say the least.
    Can they keep adding sanctions I wonder? At present 26 weeks is the maximum. I feel like saying just let me serve my sentence in peace and I ‘may’ see you next February!!!!! Lol.
    I might actually use that if need be or get an opportunity. They have sent me a letter to attend next month, i will ask manager bloke about this too. Another opportunity for coercion and sanction doubts. I don’t even want to be in spitting distance of the place, let alone go in there.
    They are moving to a new office soon. maybe I will request a ‘see you then’. Hmmm?

    His letter to me ‘requesting’ (mandating) this meeting stated that the doubts were for failure to respond to reasonable requests. i will be putting him straight if he starts with these incorrect assumptions.
    I will be calm, but assertive, as always. Must divert the anger and stress into focus and determination.

    Just typing off the cuff here, might be a little unclear, blah blah, ramble. Lol.

    Will let you know how it goes.

  17. Marcus says:

    Mr No, plead poverty. They reduced you to a situation where your penury is seriously hindering your jobsearch (too weak to walk, no money for buses, gastric problems from eating from rubbish bins, etc) Let them prove that is not the case! ;-)

    • DeadZone says:

      Just think, Mr No, if you didn’t have anyone to fall back on, you would be DEAD by now!! These fucking Nazi provider cunts and DWP collaborators should be dragged out and SHOT!!

  18. Mr No says:

    Indeed I do think that could indeed have been a possibility. A terrible and frightening thought!

    And for many a potential reality. It’s disgusting.
    I think sooner rather than later, as Marcus alludes to. there will be so many stories of people suffering that it will be harder for people to ignore. But in todays society it’s a sad time indeed, where the masses are so caught up in the mundane that until something bites them on the arse personally it’s ‘don’t want to know, does not compute’.
    I like to believe that there are sufficient numbers of good people out there who will eventually take notice and this far too harsh treatment of the poor and vulnerable will stop one day.
    It’s partly the reason i am doing what i am doing. Planting seeds wherever i go, telling it like it is, to the pimps, the JC+ etc. Fellow claimants etc. Fighting my unfair treatment and documenting the experience. It helps me get through. Have no cause other than getting my situation improved, some redress for their incorrect actions. But they have pushed this one too far and i just do what the fuck i like now.

    I had the meeting today with my pimp manager, he ‘seemed’ ok. But they always do first time you meet.
    I’ll post about the meeting later. it wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t particularly good either.
    Quite boring actually. Have to actually think about how it went exactly. Is he being a crafty fucker or not and the like.

    Anyway, I’ll do that soon. All the best guys.

  19. Marcus says:

    Yes Let us know. It useful to have arguments they found difficult to counteract.
    If for non other thing that if enough of us are clued up, the nefarious slavers work will grind down under their own bureaucratic requirements.

  20. Mr No says:

    You make a very good point there Marcus. And that is exactly it, we share, those of us that can test the boundaries, push it. See what happens. See what works, to what degree. And what doesn’t. Etc. There is no one size fits all remedy, but we do what we can do.

    Still ‘analysing’ the meeting. But trying not to be too over analytical. Being impartial about it?
    But wary with regard to what was said. Quite interesting stuff in there. Will take a while. But will try and get a few key points and things that may need questioning posted soon. I can ramble sometimes, but will try and keep it simple and factual as one can. With a little speculation too I don’t doubt. I think perhaps a visit to the CAB might be in order, Lend a little weight to my case if nothing else. Hmmm?

    • Marcus says:

      CAB are all right if you manage to get them to write something on your behalf (the -possibility- of legal recourse sometimes cool the slavers fervour for victimisation). However from my reading the consensus is that, with few exceptions, we know more than they do. So get there clued up and with some legal material at hand and be prepare to inform them on how the slavers are breaking even the overwhelmingly in their favour rules.

  21. Mr No says:

    Hi all.

    Should not the pimp be aware of the fact that I am under a 26 week sanction?
    According the ‘guidelines’ it would appear they should have the facts.

    New manager bloke said about ‘wanting to see the sanction letter to prove I am under a 26 week sanction’. Eh? And also said something about “wanting to preempt my appeal…”.
    One could get arrogant and think one has them on the run, but in reality? I think this guy will be tricky, but fair. An optimistic view, perhaps?
    He has an interesting ‘background’. He might, despite working for da pimps, be open to reason and legal and perhaps even moral arguments.
    I am feeling that this guy isn’t a fool, but neither am I. Onwards. I will suggest that he sends a wp09 form off as I am in the process of reengagement. He tentatively mentioned that this meet qualifies as a step towards reengagement. Hmmm?

    Have a mandated adviser appointment with my new adviser later this week. Letter arrived before the meeting. They can expect little, but even manager bloke isn’t expecting too much, he knows i will not take no shit. Oh some of the stuff i said… He knows beyond doubt that i am no longer concerned about much until I get redress for their mistakes. And my JSA back.

    Adviser appointment is off site too! Handy, this will (might?) diffuse and hinder them a little. Makes it a little less formal. Although it is.
    It’s very difficult to get the ‘vibe’ of the meeting in type, at the moment at least. But these little ‘snippets’ are rather interesting. I’m fully on guard, radar on, etc.

    He is sending me a letter covering what he felt we achieved in our meeting, with included “bullet points”, I think it might be a draft of something he is intending to send off. I am not too sure at present, but until this letter arrives…?
    Good actually, Because a meeting is just a meeting.
    I will give my appraisal of his letters content and my own summation of the meeting to him in writing. A record, a paper trail. I want it kept formal.

    I’m putting my appeals through as soon as i have had a chat with the DM regarding my failed reconsiderations.
    My appealing should not affect any reengaging or reinstatement of my JSA. They cannot stop me. They may try, but they can do what they like. As can I.

    He kept banging on about this 6 week course throughout the meeting. This pissed me off a bit.I just kept saying “Yeah, yeah, open minded, blah blah, will take a look, cannot commit to anything”. Etc.
    No conditionality implied, but they are crafty these pimps. Not worried about that too much, easily deferred until a later date. he knows i have no income, he knows I feel I have nowt to lose.
    I even said at some point that I sometimes feel like serving my ‘sentence’ and see them in Feb next year! Lol.
    He asked me if I want that in his letter! That threw me a bit, i said ‘I feel like that, not that it is what I’d ideally want to do. I said put what you feel you need to put.

    More later. It’s far too much to convey accurately, still processing and carefully thinking about it myself. Of course I will be posting updates. probably some rather long posts, knowing me! Maybe highlights? Lol.

    I’m hanging in there. Not doing too bad.
    Just trying to go with the flow,keep stress minimal, trying to keep fit, get fitter. So I can hopefully find some sort of half decent job and fuck them off once and for all.

    Are these long posts coherent?

    Stay strong people.

    • Fuck the WP says:

      “wanting to see the sanction letter to prove I am under a 26 week sanction’” ffs that’s just a crock of shit. The DWP has always informed the pimps of the result of “doubts”. In other words he is talking shite. This should be enough to put your guard up, he is fucking with your head – prove you are under a sanction ffs – it will be right there on his fucking screen. As soon as you begin to think that these are normal human beings who may have an ounce of compassion lurking somewhere in there sub-human bodies its Game Over. The only reason they turn nicey-nicey is when you have them bang-to-rights (or they want you to sign your Legal Rights away), then they will want to “move on”, “turn over a new leaf”: “No point in pursing that serious Breach of the Data Protection Act, Mr No, it’s not like you want some little girl in the back office to go to prison, would you”…. until the next time they have YOU over a barrel. These CUNTS are fucking ruthless, Mr No, they have already deprived you off your sole means of subsistence for 26 weeks and they just laugh at you. You could
      be lying DEAD in the gutter and they wouldn’t give a fuck. What you are dealing with is pure fucking EVIL, always, always bear that in mind. Fuck ’em!

    • Fuck the WP says:

      Remember, Dr No, that these cunts are only looking after their own arses – they are SCARED of LOSING their fucking jobs, they have a LOT more to LOSE than you have, Mr No. They have done their damnedest to fuck you up, and by jolly you are still alive and kicking.

      If you ever get these cunts over a barrel, i.e. you have a slam-dunk case that will fuck them up, don’t let if go, even if it mean that the “nicey-nicey” manager or whoever loses their job, ends up on the street with no income or if they are lucky PRISON. These cunts have no fucking conscience, they have and continue to fuck people’s lives up without a scruple. Have no fucking mercy on these evil fucking CUNTS!

    • Eastender says:

      Got of to a bad start the manager he did, lying to you about not knowing whether or not you had been sanctioned. Total and utter baloney. In business any “relationship” based on a lie is going nowhere. If they are lying about that what else are they lying about/going to lie about. These people are not to be trusted with the proverbial bargepole.

  22. Fuck the WP says:

    And the for avoidance of doubt, Mr No, I hate these CUNTS with a VENGEANCE!

  23. Mr No says:

    Hey Fuck the WP. I kind of get that impression. ;-)

    I’m no fan of theirs either, to put it mildly!

    Got the letter summarising our meeting. Yeah, baloney… After looking at ‘the notes’ he has discovered that I am indeed under a 26 week sanction. I could have told him that. Hang on, I did!
    Anyway, onwards… Hmmm?

    They are trying to shove some 6 week course at me. Throughout the meeting we had and in this letter! No conditionality mentioned, yet! But using it as a tester, or similar? Hmmm?
    I have simply said in my own follow up letter that this is not an option at the present time (He was quite casual about it, “just have a look at it”, etc) and I am saying that until my sanction is lifted and I have some income then they can go whistle in the wind beyond the absolute minimum of contracted ‘contact’ between myself and the pimp.
    Any training ‘course’ I undertake will be researched and considered only when I am in receipt of JSA again. To be considered at some other time!

    It’s a war of words. I have drafted a letter to hand deliver to new manager bloke, it is quite long and detailed and carefully written, besides it is the truth, Cannot go too far wrong when you have that. Although….! Lol.
    And although they are rather ‘careful’ in what they put in letters they have limited time to compose them and I can always seemingly find a counter to the points they raise, So far!

    They don’t seem to be taking it too seriously. I have also asked about how to escalate the complaint with the pimp should I feel it required. They have already put it back to branch level to sort out. not good enough it seems.
    I need to exhaust their own process in order to approach the probably equally useless ‘Independent case examiner’. Oh well.

    I also said although not guilty I was prepared to serve me sentence and see them next year after the sanction period is up. he echoed this in his letter! About me doing this and seeking legal advice. Not quite what I said or meant too seriously, but whatever. Context is everything.
    Anyway it shows them I don’t care. He may be trying to misrepresent, but i don’t give a shit anymore. I think he senses this. he would be rather thick if he hasn’t.

    Mandated appointment with a new adviser later in the week, manager will try to attend apparently. That’ll be interesting. 2 against 1?
    I couldn’t give a shit, I’d address the whole fucking pimp company in a conference hall if they wanted! Lol.

    Lots to process and prepare for. Will post again soon.

  24. Marcus says:

    Mr No. I tend to agree. The new manager is probably more interested in the possibility of getting you on some Micky Mouse training course, where he could get some profit out of you. However you have to consider yourself first.
    Stress that you cannot undertake any activity due to the crippling effect of the sanctions. Ergo any re-engagement has to be contingent on the JSA entitlements to be promptly re-instated.
    Keep us informed and keep strong.

    • CarrotAndStick says:

      Exactly, dangling the “JSA re-instatement” carrot in order trouser a shedload of cash. What a fucking cunt. Seriously, how low can you go. I mean, he is looking across the table at someone who is without the most basic mean off subsidence and all the cunt can thinking about is a holiday in the Bahamas, alloy wheels, whatever. Look after No.1 Mr No and fuck him and his holiday in the Bahamas, alloy wheels whatever. PS I would an objection to having an other party present at an “advisor” meeting. Do they no have to ask your permission?

      • Gissajob says:

        No they do not have to ask your permission! Though they may say something like “you don’t mind if my colleague listens in”. “Double teaming” is a frequently used tactic when dealing with difficult customers. It is a significant advantage. Apart from the good cop/bad cop routine it allows one to observe and prepare the next assault whilst you are fully occupied with the current one.
        One possible way of countering it would be to bring along a friend to act as your support and adviser. This is allowed. You’d have an independent witness to the proceedings and the opportunity to gather your thoughts by saying something like “could I just discuss that with my adviser/friend?”

      • Mr No says:

        Cheers CarrotAndStick. See my latest post below.

        Permission? I don’t really care. I will terminate the appointment if I feel uncomfortable.
        I will make my feelings very clear on all subjects. And I am asking for them to send off the form that lifts my sanction in my latest letter.

        I will also remind whoever attends this mandated ‘appointment’ (whether it is just the new adviser bloke or new manager bloke or both) that my very presence there is reengagement.
        And therefore if they could do the decent thing and pop the form off that advises JC+ to lift my sanction for me as soon as possible that would be lovely, thanks.

        But I wont sign an action plan? Oh well, more letters to write, see you later, bye.
        After I have got my fares reimbursed.

        • MoneySavingExpert says:

          This is relevant to your case, Mr No, from MoneySavingExpert, this is the sort of cunts you are dealing with (as if you didn’t know already :-) :

          “Im hoping someone on here will be able to give me some advice. I have been recieving JSA for about 18 months. The jobcentre sent me to a work focused training programme which I have been attending. I recieved a sanction due to non attendance. The sanction was for 2 weeks. I took every letter that I had recieved into the job centre which showed every appointment I had attended but was told i had still missed some. The sanction was then lifted and 2 weeks later I was sanctioned again for a month. The training provider told the job centre that I was not attending appointments even though I had signed in every time I had attended. Again, they said I had missed some that they had booked.
          As soon as this sanction was up, they immediately hit me with a 6 month sanction for exactly the same thing, despite the fact that every appointment I recieved, I attended. The job centre said it was basically my word against the training providers as they were saying I had not attended every one.
          I have appealed against the decision and have lost the case. I have had no money at all since the beginning of June and my next pay is looking to be the middle of December.
          I have applied for crisis loans, budgeting loan and hardship payments, all of which have been refused.
          I have spoken to Citizens Advice but they had no real advice to give me. Surely they cannot expect me to survive for so long on nothing. I am still signing every 2 weeks and still attending the training programme. I just dont know what to do now. I cant go on like this much longer. I have told the job centre so many times that I need help or advice and their stock answer is “You are on a sanction, we cant do anything”.
          I am still recieving housing benefit which is great but have no way of getting food or topping up the utilities. Beyond stressed now. Any advice much appreciated”

          Forum thread here .

  25. Mr No says:

    Hi Marcus.

    Yes, I think this course is most likely one of those where they get some sort of payment from me ‘agreeing’ to do it. Basically, fuck this course, I do not wish to do it.
    He even threw in that bit where they say ‘You can do this under your own steam, in your own time’. Inferring that it’s a course I could do anyway with no involvement with pimp. Hmmm?

    Despite this the ‘course’ was listed as one of ‘two options at the present time that they can offer to support me’ on new manager blokes letter! ‘But can only be considered if some reengagement is taken’. Are they taking the piss? Yes. Lol.
    The other ‘option’? ‘Reengagement on a basis that meets required outcomes of the dwp/wp framework’… Is that code for by the book? That’ll do. In other words i guess that means alternative mandated activity, the lot.
    Aah, but not so fast pimp, I have no income remember, need my JSA reinstated before I can take on anything that might involve advance fares, refreshments etc. Again, all true. So therefore any activity will have to be minimal at least until I have an income.

    I’ve made him well aware that my zero income is hindering me, that it’s stressful. Etc!
    At the meeting I was generally just being calm and assertive and thoroughly decent.
    And my response to his letter following our meeting has outlined this some more and I have addressed each of his ‘bullet points’ with counter bullet points in response clarifying and pointing out any mistakes or inaccuracies. I stated in our meeting that I still will not be signing anything i do not have to. I think i should add that in to my letter. So he wont be too surprised when i turn up with printouts of successful FOI requests. He mentioned about an action plan!
    I don’t believe I have to sign such… So new manager bloke…. I don’t have to sign an action plan. This situation isn’t going to get much easier is it? Lol.

    I don’t know what they are expecting from me with regard to this appointment with a new adviser that is coming up very soon. They wont be getting much, that’s for sure.
    Though I think I can indulge them some more with how this is really doing my head in and how I am having panic attacks due to all this and I’m losing weight due to not eating quite as well as one has been. Etc. Which isn’t too far from the truth actually.

    He did ask me how i am supporting myself. ‘Charity’ I said. ‘Family and friends, luckily’.
    He definitely was doing a bit of fishing, to see what I may say, that I might slip up somehow.
    He was listening to me, he was echoing some of my words at the meeting. And in the letter he quoted my use of the word ‘draconian’. I guess I will eventually see his less patient side. Hope not. But I really couldn’t care less either way,
    The psychology of it all is quite fascinating really. A horrid situation, but very educational.

    Anyway, another cup of tea and maybe an hour of jobsearch. Oops, I meant look at the same jobs I saw in the first hour for the next 5 hours! Silly me.

    Keep smiling people. Don’t let them take that from you.


  26. Marcus says:

    Mr No, did you have any news from the appeal process?
    In the meantime I would just play along and blame any failing on the sanctions they have imposed. The fact that you have no income is crippling your job searching endeavour, ask for food vouchers (they do not provide them) and point to debilitation caused by them as the main barrier to work you can identify!!
    Keep strong

  27. Mr No says:

    That’s the next step Marcus. To appeal, hopefully get a tribunal to attend.

    To actually have some level of supposed impartiality.
    As opposed to the reconsideration process, which in my experience my letter was sent back to my jobcentre branch from glasgow and then on to the original DM bloke who upheld the sanctions in the first place!
    Like he was all of a sudden going to go… ‘Oh, Ok then, go on, have your money back’,
    My experience of the reconsideration process is that it is bollocks. i would advise most to go straight to the appeal. 2 of my sanctions were complete bullshit and should have been rejected instantly. A tribunal ‘may’ see the sense in what are actually the facts of the matter.

    I appear to have quite a few GL24 forms about the place. I have plenty of time, well over a couple of weeks. I will be filling those in and sending them off at the earliest opportunity.

    I have to clarify something that is in the DM response letter first, where he turned down my reconsideration request. I have one month from the date on that letter to appeal.

    Apparently there is a case being heard like mine in the ‘Court of Appeal’! Whatever that exactly is?
    The letter isn’t specific as to what I cannot appeal though.
    I would assume it’s my challenging the terrible conduct when I was mandated as a punishment and the fact that this started the whole episode that led to all this crap. But it isn’t specific.
    So, I didn’t attend. I stopped participating due to being a victim of bullying essentially. Hmmm?
    Surely it cannot be the one where I didn’t attend a workshop because the letter arrived too late. What would such a simple case like that be doing in the court of appeal? Though, who knows? Hence I have to enquire before I appeal.
    I’ll probably send off appeals for all of them regardless of what they say I can or cannot appeal. I want the 2 silly sanctions overturned and my JSA reinstated at the minimum.
    That’s 6 weeks money in back pay. Forget the rest, that will be a result if I can achieve that.

    Although I will still be looking to get some sort of ‘justice’ for the terrible conduct of the pimps at what was my first meeting with my adviser. My old adviser! I now have been assigned a nice new one to toy with. Mind you, new manager bloke reckons he’s a good ‘un. Not particularly enthralled by the endorsement,
    I will be my usual self, no matter how stressed I get beforehand I seem to be able to be calm under pressure when I attend. Hopefully that will continue. It’s said that the nerves are a good thing, keeps you sharp. Worrying too much, that’s the one to avoid.
    Difficult, I know!

    Good corresponding with you Marcus. I appreciate your words and the time. The same applies to all the good folk here.

    Good luck to us all.

    • The Edge says:

      Keeping yourself on edge does keep you sharp. Once you relax (which is what they want you to do), that is when you start saying the wrong things and making mistakes. Like being under the influence :-) Or even worse, think you can trust these cunts. You have to be aware and fully cognisant at all times.

      Stay strong and Good Luck!!

  28. Moby says:

    You know when you *don’t* :-) have a mobile ‘phone and don’t want one (for whatever reason); the discussion moves to HOME PHONE or mobile ‘phone. Would these cunts go as far as installing a fucking landline so that they can harass their victims OR are they (very likely) checking up on who is ex-directory? They seem real fucking determined that their victims are contactable by ‘phone. How else would an employer contact you? Why can’t these pimp cunts just fuck off and die!!

    • Mr No says:

      No, they cannot go that far, i doubt that has been legislated for. Would be an invasion on your personal privacy and to suggest that would be a cheek. It costs too much they don’t have the weight to make such deals and you couldn’t sustain the cost anyway.

      You will of course be using a friends or family members phone for matters of employment etc. And of course as it’s not your phone you cannot give such a number to the pimps.

      They cannot mandate you to have a phone, they could try, but I doubt it.
      Some pimps used to give you a cheap mobile, Don’t think many do these days.
      Any cost saving to them in the current climate!.
      I am only just at the stage where I am deciding whether to even give them an email. I don’t really have to. But I might. I might not. I think i may have to concede that just to get my JSA back. Then close the email account. Lol.
      I don’t know what happened, it just went a bit funny and I cannot get into the email account. I will make another… Etc. That’s what I would do.if they sent too many.
      Apparently they cannot mandate you via an email. they could try it on though,

      Good luck Moby.

  29. The Edge says:

    Keeping yourself on edge does keep you sharp. Once you relax (which is what they want you to do), that is when you start saying the wrong things and making mistakes. Like being under the influence :-) Or even worse, think you can trust these cunts. You have to be aware and fully cognisant at all times.

    Stay strong and Good Luck!!

  30. Mr No says:

    Hey, The Edge.


    You are correct, don’t get too relaxed, don’t even think for a second you can trust them. Treat them like the con artists they are. That’s all they are. Government endorsed con artists, but still just bullies and con artists.

  31. Marcus says:

    Mr No,
    you’re probably aware but consider that now it seems waiting for ever for reconsideration seem to be mandatory before an appeal can be lodged (by the survivors).

    ” Government’s Response To Public Consultation On Mandatory Reconsideration Before Appeal
    Government’s Response To Public Consultation On Mandatory Reconsideration Before Appeal | Social Welfare News |
    September 26, 7:51 PM

    Government’s response to the public consultation:

    The DWP published a short Mandatory consideration of revision before appeal – Government interim response to public consultation which stated that the Department did not propose to make any significant changes to the draft regulations included in the consultation document as a result of the comments received.

    The Government’s final response to the consultation included the following:

    – There is to be no time limit for the completion of mandatory reconsideration of decisions.

    – No decision has yet been made with regard to paying ESA pending reconsideration but other benefits may be available to claimants where ESA has been disallowed.

    – It was confirmed that housing benefit and council tax benefit will not be included in the mandatory reconsideration process.

    – Where a person makes a late application for revision, the Department will be removing the requirement that an application for revision cannot be granted unless it has merit, and removing the regulation which requires that, in deciding whether an extension of time is reasonable, the decision maker cannot take into account the fact that the individual misunderstood the law or was ignorant that they could request reconsideration.

    In considering a late application for revision, the decision maker will look at whether it is reasonable to grant the application for an extension of time, and what the circumstances were that meant that the application could not be made within the one month time limit.

    The decision maker will still consider whether an any time revision can be made, or whether the decision should be superseded when considering a late application for revision as they do now.

    Where a request for reconsideration is made out of time, and the decision maker refuses the application to revise the original decision, the effect of the draft regulations is that there can be no appeal as the Secretary of State must consider whether to revise the decision before an appeal can be made.

  32. Mr No says:

    Good evening.

    I was supposed to have an appointment with my new adviser today. In which it seems that new manager bloke would have been present. Had a bath last night, clean shirt etc…. Ready to go.

    Bit stressed, couldn’t sleep and yes, you should have guessed by now…. I must have switched the alarm off and gone back to sleep. Lol. This is something I have rarely done before, well, not for something so important. I doubt this will help my case. I’m pretty annoyed at myself actually, but,no matter. What’s done is done.
    I telephoned in the afternoon to apologise for not attending etc. I could tell that new manager bloke wasn’t impressed. I explained etc. But ultimately he is a corporate whore working in a nasty industry. His fake halo was slipping a bit!

    They of course will be sending off another wp08. He said… ‘They have to do it!’
    And contractually speaking he is correct. It made me laugh when he said ‘they’ll probably look at it, see you are under a 26 week sanction and wont take further action’. Hmmm?
    I am to write a short note with my explanation to the pimp. Which actually isn’t a bad idea. I have to play the game now. To a degree.

    I fucked up, but they will not be using this to their advantage, they’ll probably try, but nothing has changed with regard to what led to all this and that 2 of my sanctions were bullshit.
    Just that I fucked up my re-engagement for now. Not a big deal really. But it delays things and they will have their perceptions about me. But that’s all they are, perceptions.
    It doesn’t alter the facts of what has happened.
    And…Of course… I am stressed am i not? I’m not thinking too straight and struggling etc.
    This is why I cannot sleep. Not eating well, Still cannot find a job etc etc etc.
    Where’s my trowel? Lay it on thick. Pimp cunts. Lol.

    Fuck ’em. Play it by ear.

    Take care all. Keep smiling.

    • Steamroller says:

      I hope these cunts get run over by a fucking bus, Mr No, seriously I really fucking do! There isn’t a word in the dictionary to describe how contemptible these cunts are. Fuck ’em, fucking, fuck ’em! Stay strong!

  33. Marcus says:

    Mr No, blame your medical condition, brought in by the stress and penury, on the missed appointment. As a matter of fact if you can try and get a doctor certificate that you’re sick. Then re-apply for emergency payments (I really do not know what is the position if you are sick while on sanctions) but it is worthwhile attempting it.
    Stay strong.

    • Doctor in the House says:

      The organ of the body to suffer through malnutrition is the heart; tell the doctor you are suffering from heart palpitations, cardiac arrhythmia and chest pains, because if you hadn’t been eating since you were sanctioned you sure as well would be. And given the added stress it is a certainty. In fact you would DEAD!! Maybe, that is the whole point!!

  34. Gissajob says:

    Mr. No,
    Sympathy goes out to you. Something practical you can do:
    Check the original letter from JCP to you mandating you to the WP – this should be coded WP05.
    Does the letter contain the wording:”The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise Scheme) Regulations 2011)” i.e. does it specifically quote the regulations under which you were mandated to the WP. Now some versions of WP05 do and earlier versions don’t. Also some people were mandated by a different letter (WP02) which doesn’t contain the reference.
    This is imporatant because as Mr. Justice Foskett pronounced in the Cait Reilly judicial review
    “You can’t just order someone to do something. You must identify your legal authories for these orders, in writing, so that the recipient of the order can have a sensible opportunity to look up the relevant legislation and/or obtain competent, independent legal advice etc”
    So without the wording you can argue that your mandation is illegal (and consequently every subsequent sanction is also illegal).
    This would merit (at the very least) a formal complaint to the DWP resulting in restoration of sanctioned benefits and possible compensation for maladministration.
    DO IT NOW!

  35. Mr No says:

    Hey Gissa.

    I was ‘referred’ to the WP about a year ago now. Then they didn’t contact me for 6 months! And then the 2nd time I see them all this shit happened!

    After all these sanctions I have got sooo much paperwork and letters. And my stuff etc, that finding any initial letter for the WP might take a while to find. I must have it somewhere, I wouldn’t have thrown such away. And a year ago I didn’t know that it might be useful today. But I’ll have a look for it. I cannot remember what this paperwork consisted of. I was given something, a sparse letter and some ‘printout’ type jobbie?

    Thinking about it I wonder how much use following this up would be in reality. No disrespect intended, I thoroughly appreciate any and all ideas.

    As far as the pimps are concerned if we ‘understand’ the ‘mandatory’ aspect. Then that’s all they care about.

    Actually, after my missed appointment last week and the attitude and the further wp08 going in for my non attendance… I am giving serious consideration to taking the ‘option’ that is seemingly on the table of just serving my ‘sentence’ and seeing the pimp when the sanction period is up and my JSA is naturally reinstated.

    And the pimps will have to leave me alone, no appointments until the 26 weeks are served?
    New pimp manager bloke has put this in his follow up letter regarding our meeting. I said it half jokingly, but he has said in writing that this is an option I can take.
    Mind you. if I did want to do this i would have to clarify that I am serving my sentence and as such require no appointments until my JSA is naturally reinstated. Hmmm?

    And of course still seek redress for the sanctions etc. But re-engagement after i have served my time. Re-engagement seemingly being the only route to getting my JSA paid before this!

    Dunno. I think any re-engagement with the pimp will be conditional and they will revert straight back to their usual coercive behaviours.

    If I ask my pimp if thier complaints procedure has now been exhausted I think they will say no. Because they know this means I can ‘legally’ go elsewhere to complain.

    What to do, what to to? Phew.

  36. Charlie D says:

    Mr No,
    My understanding is that the sanctions regime is changing on Mon 22 Oct. As the work programme is classed as an ESE scheme, sections 7.12 and 7.13 of the following pdf are applicable to you.

    In short, wp victims will no longer need to “re-engage” but will be eligible to apply for hardship payments of JSA after 2 weeks.

    As your sanction started before 22 Oct, I don’t know where you stand. I would grovel, get the sanction lifted, then after that, sod ’em.

    Good luck.

    • “n short, wp victims will no longer need to “re-engage” ”

      Are you sure?

      It seems to me the whole ‘you are not engaging’ is going to be the DWP’s main line of attack in all of this. If they can’t get you because you’ve technically followed the rules, they will just say ‘you are not engaging: you are not availaing yourtself of the help offered, etc’ and you’ll get sanctioned that way. Even if the sanction isn’t upheld by the decision maker, you still get your money stopped pending a decision (which could take months anway), so it’s the same difference.

      Last time I signed I was told, havign (stupidly) admitted i hadn’t heard from my WP pimp since April (they’ve not bothered at at all, and even then were pretty clear as to how unhlepful they’d be), that if I didn’t contact them I could gert my money stopped. I asked them for evidence and they produced a form (WP01MA4) which they claimed says so (it doesn’t). I’m fearing the worst on Friday as I suspect they will ‘raise a doubt’ as I haven’t contacted my pimp (and i don’t intend to, they were useless). So if they don’t believe me saying “i left a message but they haven’t contacted me back” i could get stuffed!

      This is the problem we face now.

      • Chestnut says:

        Exactly Ghosty, even though you are “technically” correct, these cunts still keep coming up with the “you are putting up barriers” bullshit!

      • Chestnut says:

        Your money get stopped straight away?, as soon as a doubt is raised? WTF?! Pre-“work programme”, the pimps used to “raise a doubt” and only if it was “disallowed” was your money stopped. That is pure fucking shite!!

        • It’s been this way now for years. It was changed under Labour.
          Unless it’s been changed in the meantime (as if they’d tell you), the raising of a sanction doubt is commensurate with the stopping of money. So you are presumed guilty. A doubt can happen at any time. You can go to sign on and bang, you’re money is stopped simply because the adviser deems it neccesary to raise a doubt, which I expect they can do for just about anything.

  37. Mr No says:

    Thanks for that Charlie D.

    I had read something about this previously, but is this now coming into force?

    I guess it is an avenue worth exploring, possibly make a claim for hardship payments at least. Using this ‘new legislation’ angle when they turn me down. Worth a shot perhaps?
    The thing is… Currently, although WP slaves don’t qualify (which is fucking out of order) there is something in the ‘guidance’ as it now stands around hardship stating about “if one has good cause to not participate… “. Or similar? I’l clarify when i find it.
    But the implication is there that under ciertain circumstances even someone on WP can claim hardship. I guess the “if eligible’ bit scuppers things. Not in a vulnerable group etc.
    Hang on, I’m unemployed and have no income, I think that qualifies. Lol.

    What i mean is… Although it’s da law that WP peeps cannot claim it, this little line in some guidance out there sort of contradicts the official stance on hardship.

    I think, even if just to see what happens, I may enquire to the JC about applying for hardship.


  38. Marcus says:

    Ghost Whistler, this is interesting. I and others have been parked and ignored by the WP slavers. I have not been asked about them and I did not proffer any information.
    It is technically not a requirement by the pimp to follow any recommendation contained in the provider guidance as they can “tailor their help to the special needs of the claimant”. This generally means of course that they can send you to work as a slave for ever, regardless of the guidance. An interview at fortnight seems to be regarded as the minimum form of engagement but it also was so for the Special New Deal and yet I ended up doing a year and half of it (including a re-engagement) with minimal interference from the pimps.
    The WP is however geared to provide infinite ground for sanctions so it is still a moot question on what happens when the pimps allege that their victims they had ignored for months, missed an imaginary appointment and raise sanction doubt in lieu of admitting their failure to fulfil the contract.
    I think that eventually sanctions doubts would be raised for all the pimp victims which they thinks are not potentially profitable, as there is no provisions to penalise them for doing so and an incentive from the top of the DWP to maximise savings and opportunities to massage the features on long term unemployment.
    I think that the writings is on the wall for all of us and that we are only looking at borrowed time.

    • Noone seems to understand this; and I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact that the rules are vague. The people at and the boycott workfare site, for all their good work, don’t get this, sadly. The JC can just doubt you on a whim. They can just decide that they doubt you have done enough/what you should do/that you are engaging etc. Doesn’t even matter if they are right. Your money is still stopped.
      Quoting guidelines is meaningless because your money can be stopped simply because they don’t think you are availing yourself of the available opportunities. The Work Programme is, per se (in their eyes, no matter how useless the provider), an opportunity. So if you aren’t knocking on their door or rining them up every day – guess what, you aren’t availing yourself. It’s no different than if you’d refused to apply for a job.
      How this plays out in reality is another matter; you might have helpful advisers who don’t follow this sort of nonsense to the letter. You might have people that understand the rules; I don’t seem to. Instead Iwas handed a piece of paper that has no bearing on any requirement to contact the WP myself, nor have I been mandated to.
      It is also my understanding, based on what says, that I am only required to do what the provider mandates me to do, which should be set in writing. The site also says that mandatory activities should be put in the action plan. I have no action plan. But you can bet that won’t hold any water.

      • Mr No says:

        Hey GW.
        I do hope that you will be ignoring the jobcentres ‘advice’ to contact your pimp.
        The onus isn’t on you to do so. As I’m sure you know.
        When you receive a letter from the pimp saying ‘blah blah blah blah and your benefits ‘may’ (will?) be affected if you don’t attend blah blah blah’ then fair enough, but not until such a time.
        Most of these JC staff are also arseholes. Just not quite as bad as the pimps.
        Action plan? Lol.

        Take care mate.

  39. Mr No says:

    Oh yeah, I spoke to an ‘admin manager’ at the DM office today.
    Bit late in the day, relevant staff had apparently ‘gone home’. What? Not contracted till 5? Lol.

    It’s often interesting chatting and gleaning info from the various people dotted around the JC etc.

    Going to ring back earlier tomorrow for the clarification i couldn’t get today.

    But, did any of you know this…? I’ll try to be clear here…

    Apparently, when you have put your reasons on the reverse of a sanction doubt letter and it is upheld… You then can appeal or ask for reconsideration as I have. When the reconsideration also fails to overturn your sanction (As mine has) you can still appeal.

    I was told today that the GL24 also goes to the original DM office! Even if you end up sending it to Glasgow or whereever. I was like WTF?
    I enquired further and was told that it wouldn’t be the same DM… Reassuring I don’t think.
    Apparently after originally upholding the doubt against you and then failing on the reconsideration, they also consider the appeal too. FFS!

    If they find that they cannot change their position on appeal only then does it get sent through to some departmentt where it seems it can then go to a tribunal. At least that’s the idea.
    I said how impartial can you (the DM office) be after turning things down twice already?.
    I told him I expect to be sat in front of a tribunal. Real humans who hopefully are somewhat impartial and open to reasoned discussion. Hmmm?

    Oh yeah, they don’t seemingly do ‘pp’ when it comes to signing the letters.
    Although the letters received from the DM have all had the same managers name, me thinking it’s all this blokes fault..
    It appears that it wasn’t, it was someone else (christian names only! Lol) who made the original decision. What a convoluted pile of shite.

    Other than that, PImp new manager bloke wanted a letter from me why i didn’t attend to end along with my latest wp08. To help my cause? Hmmm? Bollocks, he don’t need no letter from me grovelling and admitting my mistake. I’ll write that myself if I get another ‘doubt. They have probably sent the wp08 off already anyway. If not and over 5 days it’ll get thrown out.
    It’s all bullshit, I’m stressed, but I’m not playing ball anymore.

    Anyway, that’s about it really. Will post back more of this ongoing saga soon.

    • PC Plod says:

      “admitting my mistake.” – Never, ever “confess!

    • PC Plod says:

      Anything you say or send to these pimps will be recorded, kept on file and used in “evidence” against. These people are not your friends; there job is to stop your benefit any which way they can. Do not give them a written “confession”.

  40. Mr No says:

    Hello all.

    Hmmm? Got some more non clarification from the DM today. It’s a complete shambles!

    I did find out that I have two 26 week sanctions, running concurrently. Bonus! Lol.
    The woman on the phone wasn’t the best, but she was very patient and did spend a lot of time on the phone. But the system is flawed, they all know this really. As we do. I got the impression that by the end of our chat she must have been thinking ‘poor bastard’.

    Oh well, I’ll do me best. Get the GL24 forms filled in and sent. Tribunal here I come… Eventually, perhaps?
    I cannot see the DM, upon getting my ‘Appeals’, suddenly changing their minds.
    I said this on the phone today. I told her I fully expect it to get to the tribunal stage where I can sit and state my case to potentially impartial tribunal type people.

    I might make enquiries to them ICE people. Though I am somewhat sceptical about how good their services might truly be.
    The provider isn’t addressing the complaint correctly, therefore I feel i can now progress and go elsewhere.
    I’m going to serve my sanction out I think, And still seek ‘justice’ all the while.
    New manager bloke said i can do this, but in his letter they have craftily sneaked in about they will still try to make contact and support. Support? I think they mean that although I can ‘choose’ to see my sanction out they will still badger me. Hmmm? One to ponder.
    I may have to write a letter stating that i wish to do this, both to pimp and JC. And that I will be seeking legal advice and want no contact until my sanction is served.
    If I re-engage my JSA can be reinstated, but fuck them, I am choosing not to reengage. The trust has gone! Lol.
    Unless they start behaving decently. Which of course, they are incapable of.

    Just having a little rant there in addition to my info.

    Take care people.

  41. Gissajob says:

    See previous comment about checking that you were correctly mandated to WP using correctly worded WP05. One person complained to JCP (no WP05 ever sent). Result – Taken off the Wp and back to normal signing on for 6 months.
    It really is worth the effort of checking because:
    1. You will get 6 months off the WP
    2. Your enrolment in the CAP will be delayed (up to 2 and 1/2 years)
    3. DWP will (presumably) have to pay another attachment fee in 6 months time
    4. You have a strong case for repeal of any WP sanctins imposed during your incorrectly mandated WP sentence.

  42. Charlie D says:

    New DWP letter regarding new sanctions regime and hardship payments.

  43. Mr No says:

    Hey guys.

    Gissa – I will look for any paperwork that might resemble a WP05. Mind you, it was a year ago now. I rarely chuck such paperwork away, but I will look. Mine is probably correctly worded though. Lol.

    I sent off my GL24 appeal forms today. Strongly worded and correct, as ever.

    Will they overturn anything? I doubt that very much. Tribunal here we come!

    Unless they try and tell me I cannot appeal. And if they do,,,? Fuck that. They’re not fobbing me off, that’s for sure.

    Take care people.

    • Gissajob says:

      Hi Mr. No,
      If you can’t find the WP 05 it may mean you didn’t get one! You can check if you were correctly mandated by making a Subject Access Request to the DWP and asking for “copies of all letters and documents issued by them and JCP relevant to my mandation to the Work Programme”. If their response does not include a copy of a correctly worded WP05 it is safe to assume there wasn’t one – next step a complaint to the JCP withdrawal from WP for 6 months, a claim for incorrectly sanctioned monies – and if you’re feeling cheeky a claim for compensation for maladministration.
      What have you got to lose?

      • Gissajob says:

        This is the text of my Subject Access request::
        3rd. October 2012
        The Data Protection Officer
        Department for Work and Pensions
        Caxton House,
        Tothill Street,
        SW1H 9DA

        Dear Sir or Madam,

        Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998

        Name: Gissajob
        NI No:

        Please treat this as a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act 1998 and supply me with the following information:

        1. All information on me held by your data users whether this be held on computer or manual filing systems. Please include copies of any handwritten notes of meetings and e-mails which refer to me in person. For the purpose of this request “data users” includes A4e Ltd, your nominated and contracted supplier of the Work Programme. The request includes information held at both A4e Head Office (Sheffield) and their XXXXX office.
        2. Copies of all correspondence including standard letters from yourselves to me pertaining to my mandation on to the Work Programme. To assist you I can inform you that I was mandated by yourselves through your XXXXX office in DATE.
        3. Copies of all correspondence, e-mails, notes and standard forms pertaining to the raising and resolution of all instances of WP08 (Failure to Participate in the Work Programme) forms. Please include all relevant items from both yourselves (Jobcentreplus) and your data user (A4e Ltd.)
        Yours etc.

        I am asking for a lot because I want to keep them busy (think of it as job creation!). You could just ask for point 2 above.
        Nearly 2 weeks now and no reply yet!

        Yours faithfully,

        • Mr No says:

          Thanks Gissa. I appreciate your time. I will look into this soon.
          I’m trying to take things at an even pace. I have to. Otherwise I feel I might explode! Lol.

  44. Mr. X says:

    Hello again, friends.

    I still haven’t been back to the pimps since my last post a few months back. I’ve been keeping in touch with them mainly via e-mail each fortnight basically telling them that I am still applying for jobs (Not that anyone sees fit to give me an interview). Thank God that these ones are hands-off. At one point I volunteered to visit them with my jobsearch records, and they said I didn’t have to. Just as long as I eventually give them my records at some future date. Excellent. Makes me look good, and shows that they don’t need me there either. Result!

    I am a bit pissed off that my JCP stopped doing the drop boxes for the ES24JP forms; now we have to queue up for a desk drone to ‘process’ us, plus we are set appointment times again though they seem fairly loose with it for now. Luckily that hasn’t worked out to be much slower (yet). At least these forms keep me to a manageable quota and nicely negate the pimps from forcing me to apply for more than ten vacancies per fortnight. Of course, naturally the DWP/JCP will get rid of anything that makes things easier for us and for them. So if these forms go, that would be typical.

    I’m approaching the one year anniversary of my referral; I hope they didn’t knock off the three months they gave me to recover from my operation. If not, I should be reaching half-time of this WP debacle. Part of me worries that they won’t play so nice in the second year of this ‘sentence’, not to mention whatever they will replace the WP with to persecute the unemployed.

    Can’t these arseholes in the House of Commons understand that we need jobs, not Work Programmes? There is no end in sight for this depression, and people like us will be trapped on the outside looking in as long as they keep this up. Perhaps only WW3 can stop the depression, as the previous one supposedly did. The Conservatives and Labour are two cheeks of the same arse, I have zero faith in them just as I have zero faith in anyone offering me a sustainable job that won’t make me want to kill myself inside a week.

    I am gutted for Mr No; the worry, torture and suffering they have put him through is an absolute disgrace. I hope those bastards find out what it’s like to be on the other side of the desk.

    Stay strong.

  45. Mr No says:

    Hello Mr X. Welcome back.

    I am always sooooo glad to hear it when people aren’t having any particular issues with their pimp. I sincerely hope it continues to be the case for you Mr X.

    Yeah, they have also done away with the dropbox for the signing ‘coupons’ at my JC.
    Replacing it with a drone sat next to an in tray. And it also does gestures like pointing to the coupons for the following fortnight. Marvellous! No queues though. As yet.

    Yes, I am struggling a bit, it is stressful.
    But as I have said many times before, I have a roof and get a hot meal and some support from family and friends.. So, although I haven’t got any money, I can just about manage. Cope.

    And if only unemployment and the pimps and the sanctions were the only problems in life. Health, love, life…? In all its joy and tragedy.

    Also being able to share views and experiences with good people going through the same stuff Is helpful.

    And I intend to stay strong.

    Cheers mate. Good luck to us all.

  46. SmithnBloggs says:

    Hi Mr No, like Mr X, I am also gutted for you dude, what an absolute fucking disgrace for non compliance to the subscription of facism. Things are starting to get nasty at Avanta for me which I will post up more details of soon when I calm down a bit more but just wanted you to know that we all on here have to keep reminding ourselves every single day that WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS, not the baddies. Speak soon.

    Peace and love dudes.

  47. Charlie D says:

    A couple of links regarding new sanctions regime starting today:

    1. Memo DMG 37/12

    2. A handy ezine for DWP staff that summarizes the changes

  48. Bernard says:

    It has been a while since I posted here, sad to see Mr. No still having problems with the bastards.

    My attendance requirements have pretty much remained the same since I joined the programme a year ago, once fortnightly. I am careful not to grow complacent, because I’m sure the pimps are planning how to make our lives even more miserable.

    One bright spot of news, whilst attending the pimp centre today, I overheard my advisor sulking to one of his colleagues about losing his job at the month because he had failed to find any of his clients work.

    • Schadencreude?

      I still haven’t heard anything from the provider since April. I don’t think the JC are happy about this. Unfortunately I fear that it will be me they take it out on. There’s something about the benefits system and the wankers in charge that just don’t like us.

  49. Mr No says:

    Hi guys.

    Good to see some familiar ‘pseudonyms’ about the place.

    So, today sees these ‘changes’ to da rulez! It might appear that I now can legitimately claim hardship allowance… Or does it?
    Hmmm? I don’t believe that will be as simple in reality. But I will give it a go.

    In the links to the changes (Thanks Charlie D) there is some curious stuff…

    Paragraph 108
    ‘This means claimants or a member of a joint-claim couple who are sanctioned for a
    failure to participate in the ESE scheme will have access to hardship payments even
    when they are not in a vulnerable group as JSA will not be payable for the full period
    of any sanction imposed regardless of whether they re-engage with the scheme.’

    This could indicate it’s a sure thing that if we find ourselves on a long sanction we can indeed claim such, What I find most ‘interesting is that last bit!
    Is this saying that there is no longer the facility to get the sanction lifted if you have ‘served 4 weeks’ and you re-engage? Seems so!
    So, therefore I will not be having anything to do with them until my sanction expires next year.
    They wanted me to re-engage, I was considering such so I could get my JSA reinstated, but not now. Oh no! Fuck that!

    I have drafted 2 letters outlining my intentions to serve out the sanction and re-engage when my sanction ends and my JSA is naturally reinstated.
    I have said that I expect no more mandatory activity notices to be sent to me during this time. Explaining that I am under 26 week sanction and I do not expect this period to be extended.
    One letter to JC manager and one to Pimp manager.
    This has been confirmed as an option for me, with a possible sneaky caveat added when pimp put that in writing, but whatever! Fuck ’em. Play it by ear.
    I will be claiming hardship this week too. Will of course update as and when any news is in.

    This whole scenario is quite surreal,

    Cheers guys.

  50. Job Search says:

    What’s it with the new form at the jokecentre because they “don’t do the “grey diary” any more”. Do the jc keep them? Check the info on them?

    NI No

    You are expected to list the steps taken per week as agreed on your jobseekers
    agreement (This could be the Internet at least twice weekly, News papers (sic), Jobpoints, Jobseekers Direct, Agencies, Direct approach to employers or asking Family or friends)

    (WEEK ONE)

    (WEEK TWO)


    weekly Jobsearch steps taken on page 1

    [6 columns]


    • Job Search says:

      Hi Gissajob

      The form doesn’t live up to the usual professionalism we have come to expect of jokecentre staff; looks more to have been cobbled together in haste by some low-grade admin clerk in the bowels of the building.

      btw the formatting hasn’t displayed properly


      should read:

      Box 1 :


      Box 3:

      BOX 4:

      • smithnbloggs says:

        Hi Jobsearch,

        I’m a bit lost to which ones you mean dude as I am now back using the old style booklets after changing to the new ones, (different versions for different areas as gissajob as said) for a few months which I’m guessing are the ones you mean. I’ve uploaded a scan of the ones we used for you to compare in the link below.

    • I still have yet to see this form, and have to rely on the grey book. Unfortunately advisers take a different approach to how they think it should be filled in, even though they dont’ tell you. Of course when you hear nothing back from employres/providers/help of any kind it just makes your case look all the more insecure.

  51. Gissajob says:

    Hi Job Search
    It seems that each JCP District has its own version of this form. My JCP has so far issued 3 slightly different versions – all of which are a bit different to the one you describe! For instance on mine (and on the 2 previous versions) there is no specific reference to Jobcentre Vacs. There is no official coding on the form either. I think the DWP have told the JCP offices to devise their own streamlined signing on for those on the WP in an effort to reduce the strain on their staff – hence the great variety of forms in use, the small typos and the lack of an official document code.

  52. smithnbloggs says:

    Hi Everyone,

    For anyone who hasn’t signed on yet since Monday, here are the scans of the ‘C&S Fact Sheet’ and the new ‘ES40JP Booklet’ I was given today.

    C&S Fact Sheet Front Page:

    C&S Fact Sheet Back Page:

    ES40JP Booklet Page 1:

    Pages 2 and 3:

    Pages 4 and 5:

    Pages 6 and 7:

    Pages 8 and 9:

    Pages 10 and 11:


  53. Marcus says:

    Mr NO, Gisajob in the unemployment movement forum ( :
    Summed up some interesting points about the WP mandation validity in reply to some queries:

    People mandated to the WP have to be issued with a letter which cites the correct regulations enabling the mandation. The letter that should be used is coded WP05. The original version of this letter dod not cite the regulations. The DWP altered the WP05 without giving it a new version number (sneaky!). Some people were also incorrectly mandated by use of other letters (e.g. WP02 which also does not contain the required wording).
    There have already been instances – some documented on this site! – of successful challenges to the WP mandation (see posts from Bryan). In these instances the person has checked which letter they received and whether it was the correct version. This can be done by a Subject Access Request if original not available. WHERE the original mandation has been done incorrectly complaints have been made – and upheld. The result being withdrawal from the WP and reinstatement of normal signing on procedures at JCP. If still unemployed in 6 months then there will be re-mandation (presumably done correctly!) to the WP with a further period of 2 years. Thus deferring consignment to the CAP which would normally be done 2 years after the original wrongly documented mandation. I do not know how any sanctions imposed during the incorrectly mandated period are treated but would guess that there is a strong possibility that since the original mandation was illegal then any subsequent WP related sanctions would also be illegal.
    Frankly I am surprised that incorrect mandation is still apparently taking place! I thought this was confined to the first few months of the WP – i.e. before the re-wording of the WP05.
    There really must be thousands of people on the WP who are incorrectly mandated and who could challenge it.
    I’m just waiting for the tidal wave.

    Is it possible that this would be of help for your situation?
    Keep strong and let us know.

  54. Mr No says:

    Hi guys.

    Well, it took ma a while but I found the letter that I believe to be the ‘standard letter’ that is the WP05 referred to.
    Unfortunately mine has the reference to the ESE scheme and regs etc blah blah on it.
    So, that’s not going to be an option for me. I do hope that it proves fruitful for those that have a letter that omits such.
    The letter has no code on it though. But from a quick image search what I found is the WP05 letter.

    But no matter, it gives me a little less to deal with and to pursue my tribunal and prepare for that when they turn down my appeals. Lol.
    Of course they will not change their mind. It’s far too simple for them to deal with, Or should that be complex? I don’t know it’s still morning. Lol.
    I wonder how long before I hear the outcome of my appeals?
    They have received them. They were a couple of days late, postal system not my fault, recorded, proof of postage etc.
    Though I have spoke to the DM about this and they don’t think it’ll be a problem, they might get arsey and delay matters while they ask me like a naughty schoolkid why it was late, but it wont stop the process.

    Other stuff? Enquiring about hardship tomorrow, will see if they will just grunt or give me the form to peruse at least.
    Tweaking my letters regarding my ‘option’ of serving out the sanction with minimal contact with pimp until sanction ends. No mandatory notices till then, ta very much. That’ll be interesting.

    The thing is…. The really fucking sad truth is… Where are all the fucking jobs? Where?
    I apply for all sorts of shit, get nowhere… And for what? For fuck all.
    I want a job to get away from these idiots. That might be partly why we never really mention about the actual employment they are so eager for us to get, because there’s fuck all out there. I mean, there are, but not every individual is suited to every job etc etc etc. And etc.
    And all the bullshit apprentice jobs. Jobs? They’re not fucking jobs, they’re vacancies for young mugs. Fucking workfare? Is that for real? That too probably probably?.
    But fuck thinking about that for now. Lol.
    Fuck ’em! All of ’em. All the narrow minded heartless bigoted cunts. I got more soul in one of my toenail trimmings than exists in the entire houses of parliament.

    But don’t be alarmed, whilst typing that tirade I am listening to soothing music and am smiling, they’ll never take that from me.
    ‘Ye can take ma dole, but ye’ll never take ma freedom’.
    Or the little we think we have, at least.

    Need more tea.

    Cheers all.

  55. Marcus says:

    It always surprises me. The assumption that the “economy” is re-adapting and jobs will return.
    We should not entertain such delusions. The jobs are gone because the means and mode of production have changed. Not a dissimilar position to the one the Luddites protested against. Technology & science make up for more and more efficient automatised production and even in places like China “industrialisation” simply means that this is where a new wave of more advanced productions means are temporarily built.
    In older advanced Countries like our, the local participants of an international elite is creaming off the profits from the more and more efficient types of production and it is using it only for buying what they need to foster a Lucullian way of life. Ever more expensive and far reaching that the emperors of old. The Nation economy is adapting to this type of neo-feudalism, with gated community, privatised institutions, health, armed forces and generally a society geared to service the wishes and need of the Masters while the rest of us live of scraps and die young.
    We are not there yet but that’s the trend. We are in line to become second class citizen, the disfranchised plebs.
    Sure eventually the system will collapse and a more equal and egalitarian society will emerge but not after a long protracted and bloody struggle.
    At the moment however we are proverbially s*****d.
    So do not take your situation in a too personal fashion we’ll all be following you soon. It may even turn out that your experience and troubles will bear some fruit and keep you in good standing for the future universal troubles.
    So keep strong and think of yourself as a trailblazer, it personally gives me courage to see someone that ins spite of adversity still manage to keep it together.

  56. Quite honestly, we’re fucked. next year is going to be hard, much harder than it has been so far.

    the labour market is changing and the consequence of the government and capitalism’s attitude toward the unemployed will leave them, us, on the scrapheap forever. the kindest thing would be to just pension us off, and let us get on with our lives.

    There is no going back from this, those that survive this economic storm will have skills, technology and experience that I certainly won’t and will never get as a result of being out of work. We can’t expect the WP to provide these things, even though that’s what we will need.

  57. Mr No says:

    Well, as most of us here may agree… The WP is basically a scam.

    What i have thought for years is that they should just let people study and get ‘proper’ qualifications in whatever they wish to learn that will ‘upskill’ them, to use the providers poxy parlance! Not that such guarantees a job! Hence bullying. It’s easier, more people easily led than assertive, so it’s probably more cost effective for them to maintain the scams and the coercion. It works! Even though it doesn’t. Lol.

    All that money wasted on simply bullying the unemployed into being good little income tax payers should be aimed at a smaller number that will study, will get the ‘proper’ qualification and hopefully some sort of chance at a career or halfway decent job.
    The government should recognise there will always be people unemployed. Regardless of scenario. They do recognise this, but they don’t like this. You will comply or suffer. Or be forced to do their bidding? If it weren’t for the fact that one has to keep tabs on what them nasty leader types are doing I would totally tune them out and give them no time at all.

    They force stigma on that what they they dislike and/or cannot control. Fuck them. Adapt and survive. Easier said than done, but unfortunately we have to adopt this mindset to a certain extent. You feel the dictatorship more when you are poor.

    • I’ve got my second appointment on the 19th. Got the letter today. Can’t say it’s totally unexpected, nor that I feel especially good about it. The sad part is, these people had one chance to impress me and to garner my trust, as someone that suffers from some mental health issues (not enough for the WCA, not that it would make any difference now – I’d still be on the bloody scheme). They blew it, big time. Unfortunately, that kind of trust is too precious to give away to people just because they can threaten you.

  58. Mr. X says:

    At the Jokecentre I was told to add reference numbers to my applications form. What a pain in the arse. I’ll have to let my two month backlog shrink a bit to make it more manageable. Oh, and we haven’t got these booklets mentioned further above. I prefer the forms anyway.

    I agree that this 1% GDP rise is a flash in the pan, and we are still fucked for the long term. I wrote a long post on this the other day, only to lose it when I thought I saved it. We are in the worst depression ever. We are only halfway recovered – from -6% to -3% – and even that is very stagnated. The ‘recovery’ will be so slow and painful, it will be unnoticeable to the likes of us who are trapped on the outside looking in. I curse that I had to be alive for this one.

    I also lamented that we don’t have any industry left, unlike Germany who survived this recession pretty well, though now the Eurozone will drag them down along with the rest of us. If our economy and our pathetic job pool is that weak before the depression, what hope is there for British workers? Tons of shitty, soulless sales or call-centre jobs? Not to mention the ongoing influx of cheap foreign labour driving wages down. It’s all a race to the bottom.

    As Marcus says, I suppose we can take some heart that our experience on this side of the desk may stand us in good stead, as we will likely have a lot of company in the coming years. I dream for a time when I never have to see the inside of a Jokecentre ever again, but that will only remain a dream. The bankers need lynching for causing this disaster.

    As Ghost Whistler says; if only they would pension us off! It’s not as if it would be a life of luxury, just survivable. It would save so much bullshit, depression and heartbreak. I would kill for a pension, and I’m still looking for my first job!

    Stay strong.

  59. Mr No says:


    It seems a few of us are having issues at the moment. Resisting the Borglike providers and hoping that the sanctions don’t force us into assimilation. They are getting worse I reckon, this new sanction regime is a really great compliance tool.

    I just got a new mandatory activity notice this morning, lovely! Telling me to attend some venue next week. Not at the provider. One of their charitable partners I guess.
    This despite being under sanction until next year! I will be calling the provider on Monday to say that we agreed I could serve out my sanction. I choose not to ‘re-engage’.

    The pimp did ‘add’ to this agreement in a follow up letter that if i chose to serve out my sanction they would still “make contact to offer support” etc. I knew that i would get more mandatory activity notices. And here’s the first. Hopefully not of many.
    I have tried speaking to JC+, but nobody can tell me if they can still mandate me. The usual you’ll have to write to the manager. I should have done, I was actually going to, but I’ve been rather down lately. And I have partly given up. Managing, but a bit down. Not just all this sanction/pimp crap, but some personal stuff too. Doing my best to stay strong.
    As someone else said… If I didn’t have the support that I am so lucky to have then i may well be dead. Or have a criminal record if I was caught stealing food. They know exactly what they are doing, they know what suffering they are causing. I do so feel for those who have little or no support.

    So, it appears that even when you’re sanctioned they will send you mandatory appointments.
    I will probably ring them up and tell them I cannot afford the fare in advance. Or food if it’s an all day thing. And that I’m choosing not to re-engage so fuck off till February. I actually thought they might have seen sense and were going to leave me alone. Yeah, right.

    If I simply do not attend is this going to extend my sanction I wonder? For a further 13 weeks under the new rules? I guess that as long as one is on the WP and not complying the sanctions just get added on. Or will run concurrently? Or if I don’t attend and get a doubt just trust the DM? LOL!!!!! Reason for non attendance? Zero income, due to 26 week sanction therefore could not raise money for advance fares and lunch which would be required for an all day appointment.

    A bit risky though. I may just have to attend this one and try to thwart any further attempts.
    But then i think… No, I cannot yield, but then i think that although this wouldn’t attract a 3 year sanction they could keep these shorter 13 week ones going until the 2 years is up. No JSA till this time next year. Lol. Dunno why I am grinning to myself, it’s not too funny. Oh dear, it is a joke though. I might let this first one go to the DM because 13 weeks from now is around the same time my sanction ends. If it runs concurrent it would not extend my sanction by much. Hmmm?
    I just want to serve out my current sanction in peace. The maximum under the old rules,
    I wonder if that has any legal mileage? I will see what I can (or cannot?) negotiate and what info I find out on Monday. Fun times.

  60. Marcus says:

    Yes, Mr No use the induced poverty as cover all justification. In any case if the sanctions exceed the longer times (I think is a year now) you need to be off JSA to clean the slate, it will not make any sense to keep signing on.
    At present one needs to keep signing on and doing anything required to comply with the JSA “entitlements”. But one can see that poverty can be a formidable “barrier to employment”!
    All this bullying is imposed by those that want to abolish welfare, so that more and more is whittled away. Obviously at some point there will be a limit on what you can force people into doing. Slaves need to be kept alive to work! If one were mandated to workfare without the “fare” part it would not have any reason to comply.
    So I think that even now the pimps are aware of their limited options on forcing compliance.
    Eventually by the end of next year when most unemployed will be on sanctions I expect JCP and WP offices will start burning and their employees going to work not knowing if they would return, I expect homelessness to sky-rocket and social order in the less fortunate areas of the Country to nosedive. There probably a system of let “the dog lie” will naturally develop. Confront the pimps with the fact that their actions have deprived them of much of the leverage they have on you and that their policy will result in more and more loss of potential revenue for them.
    Hopefully they will live you at least alone.
    Do not let the B…grind you down. You have been brave and principled. The pimps are lesser human beings. Never forget this.
    Keep strong and survive.

  61. Universal Jobmatch says:

    Government Gateway &Universal Jobmatch

    This is being handed out by JCP.

    Universal Jobmatch and Government Gateway

    Registering on Government Gateway

    A new, modern, online job posting and automated matching service will be launched on 19 November

    This will be an essential tool to help you find work and I will be talk to you about how to make best use of the system each time you visit the Jobcentre. In order to access the new service you will need to have a Government Gateway account. You can create this account now, to ensure you are able to access Universal Jobmatch when it becomes available.

    I have listed below the action you need to take to set up your Government Gateway account. Please do this within the next two days. If you need any help do not hesitate to contact me.

    1. To register with Government Gateway go to

    2. Enter the Government Gateway and click the Register button.

    3. You will be asked to input your name, your email address and a password containing 8-12 numbers and letters.

    4 You will be allocated be allocated a User ID. Please keep a note of this as you will need to use both the User ID and the password you created to access Universal Jobmatch. DWP will need a note of your User ID No. to allow access to your account, please bring it with you when you next sign on.

    5 You will receive a confirmation email from the Government Gateway. You need to click on the link within this email to complete the registration process. Please note that the link will expire within 24 hours. After that time you need to go back into Government Gateway and request a new confirmation email through the ‘Your Account” section.


  62. Mr No says:

    Hmmm? No mention of mandatory.
    I guess eventually we will all get a letter to inform us of this new ‘service’. If there is no mention of ‘having to’ participate in this then they can fuck right off.
    Therefore it is simply an ‘invitation’.
    No thanks.
    But “You are limiting your jobsearch” I hear them say. “No, not at all”, will be the reply.
    If the facility to browse the few new jobs each day on directgov still remains then that’ll do.
    I’ll look myself ta very much, no need for the jobmatch.
    Which most likely will simply throw any vacancy at you if it is deemed suitable for you. It being simply a software operating on any details you enter. And churning out who knows what.
    Then what? Don’t apply for the softwares suggestions and that’s refusing a notified vacancy? Just speculating. As usual we will have to wait and see.
    Of course this new initiative will be pretty useless.

    • UJM says:

      That’s the way it works though, they want your “consent”, “compliance”, they want you to “choose”, so of course it will start of with a polite “invitation”. But if you haven’t signed up before long it will be written in stone to your JSAG. And you can bet that the DWP’s “partners” will have access to this account. One “invitation” worth politely declining.

    • UJM says:

      Your “advisor” will be able to add jobs to your account which you have to apply for. And not applying for jobs you are told to apply for is one the most most heinous “offences” with a potential three (3!!) year sanction. You would have to be crazy to sign up for this.

    • UJM says:

      This is from the DM Guidance:

      On Thursday 22. 8.13 the DM makes a determination that JSA is not payable to
      Wendy as she has refused without good reason to apply for a job in a shop that was
      notified to her by her advisor. Wendy states she does not want to apply for jobs in shops as she wants to work outside and use her trained skills as a gardener. The date of the failure is 8.8.13. This is Wendy’s third failure within 52 weeks. Previous failures on 20.12.12 and 1.5.13 resulted in a 13 week and 26 week sanction being imposed. As this is Wendy’s third failure within 52 weeks of the previous failure and
      the most recent failure resulted in a 26 week sanction being imposed the sanction will
      be for 156 weeks. [3!!! YEARS!!]

      You would have to be crazy to (voluntarily) put yourself in that situation.

  63. Mr No says:


    I rung my pimp today to cancel tomorrows appointment.

    Remember ‘new manager bloke’?
    Well, he has left now too! Turns out my ‘new’ assigned adviser is now the temporary manager! What a joke. I said so too. I also told him that I choose not to re-engage until my sanction is served and that I do not have the money for fares etc.
    Apparently there were no notes on the system regarding such, There should be now if he does his job properly.
    I was assured that I would not be getting a doubt for FTA seeing as I have rung in advance to inform them of this. Well, hopefully anyway! Of course I recorded the call.

    Haven’t heard anything back about my appeals. Though that could take months i imagine.
    I guess it will still be ongoing even when my sanction has expired and get my JSA payments reinstated. And then the fun starts all over again!

  64. Mr No says:


    So this announcement is now on the directgov site…

    Universal Jobmatch is coming on 19 November 2012.

    Universal Jobmatch will replace the Jobs and Skills service and will make looking for jobs easier and quicker. You will be able to build or upload a CV online and Universal Jobmatch will automatically match your CV to jobs posted on the service.

    Watch out for this new service launching and use it to find the job you want.

    Hmmm? Will ‘replace the jobs and skills service’? It will not exist in it’s current form to browse?
    ‘Will make looking for jobs easier’ and ‘automatically match your CV to jobs’?
    What, no CV uploaded will mean no jobsearch facility? What about the many of us who are looking for any work, stuff that is not on our CV, for example? Have they not thought of that?
    I will not be uploading my CV to this. Surely there will still be the facility to browse jobs without uploading a CV. If not, they can fuck off.

    If it should become a problem then I suppose we could upload a redacted CV, possibly with a email exclusively for this UJ crap. If such isn’t rejected by the software. For example, phone numbers, it might not let you register if that particular info is not input.
    If it is going to be based purely on our CV then wouldn’t that constitute them limiting our jobsearch for us?
    Nah, the facility to browse must still be an option. But it wouldn’t surprise me if not.
    One way to try and get all our details, eh? Anyway, if there is no mention of mandatory they can go whistle. Even if it is. Any great problems and a redacted one will have to do them.

    • Universal Jobmatch says:

      Mr No, it might give you a CV “template” to fill in with * required fields(s). As you say, it is just an information gathering exercise (to be used against and to your detriment), knowledge is power and every piece of information that these cunts gather on you weakens your position correspondingly. There is a sales saying: “Whoever is asking the questions is winning”.

    • Universal Jobmatch says:

      Confirmation Universal Jobmatch is mandatory?
      See here

      • Marcus says:

        An interesting thread can be found at:

        Although these are still early days, the comment below attracted my attention:
        Here is a response to a FOI.
        It is very clear from this response that an advisor has the discretion to ask a claimant to register, and in case of refusal, to stop his or her benefits.

        With regard to your question about plans to make registration mandatory, the service will greatly enhance employment prospects, so we expect most JSA claimants will register willingly. However, where registration is deemed by a Jobcentre Plus adviser as reasonable in terms of improving employment prospects, but the claimant will not do so willingly, the adviser will be able to require registration through the issue of a Jobseeker’s Direction. Similarly, under Universal Credit, where registration with the service is deemed by a Jobcentre Plus adviser as reasonable in terms of improving job prospects, this will be Claimant Commitment. Failure to comply with any part of the Claimant Commitment, without good reason, will lead to a benefit sanction.

  65. mr pain says:

    Hi everyone,
    I’m up at silly hour unable to sleep so thought I’d type out what I’ve been up to, I apologise in advane for the spelling and other grammer mistakes, I blame it on my short time with Ingeus their spelling and grammar is shocking .

    Having been sent to the lovely Ingeus a few weeks ago I started searching around the wonderful internet about them and read this thread plus the other opened 20 pages about workforce and what it all adds up to.So I was fully armed and ready when going for my first day of seeing the light.

    I’ve been self employed for over 25 years up until a couple of years ago when an accident at work made me pack up for some time. I didn’t sign on for the first year or so but after letters from HMRC about my none filled in tax returns which after 25 years of doing so made it look like I might have been working and not disclosing it so was advised signing on was the best way forward which I did, a year on and I’m now in the cluctches of Ingeus, this is how the first what I call the Date went

    It’s all going great

    He certainly looked the part trousers,shirt, tie, shiney shoes and a decent amount of gel keeping his hair unruffled if I was that way inclined 20 years younger his youthful good looks and appearences would have me putty in his hands.
    It was all smiles going through the initial stages of the interview, the up to now all smiles back helpful adviser told me how, with his continued support and my determination he was going to get me back into work in no time at all.I didn’t say much just the occasional nod grin and that’s great, sounds good.It went just about the same as everyone else on the first day I assume

    Our relationship is about to hit the rocks I’m calling it the 10 min itch.

    Right then Mr pain if you could just sign these here forms we can get on with sorting out seeing what we can do for you today. I asked him what they’re for while flipping the pages and listened to the blah blah blah which came to an instant halt when I quietly told him I was unable to sign them.He asked in a shocked but still smiling way and gave him the personal privacy responce, he quickly countered by saying my details would be perfectly safe nodding all the time, I did notice his hair didn’t move out of place once while he rambled on. I then added, a knock out blow I think, that he might have been confident about them being safe with him and Ingeus but I wasn’t and even more so after reading innicdents of fraud being under investigation by the police and dwp in companies such as this one along with other providers.

    Things are turning frosty

    We then had one of those awkward silences which I suppose is quite common on a first date, neither not knowing what to say at that moment. It may not have helped with the way I slid the consent form slowly back over the table to him with a clenched fist and just my middle finger Im sure you can get the image he was seeing,I’m almost sure he got the gesture from me saying up yours just right. I told him at this point not to take it personal, trying to imply the the fraud bit along with it the middle finger and it was the company as a whole I was worried about,what might happen to my details and not what he was going to do with them.

    He’s done a runner.

    I was still on the first date senario while waiting for him to return, was he jumping out of the toliet window looking for a quick exit, maybe asking a mate to ring him saying he had an emergency so sadly had to leave. He didnt and returned with a manager who assured me my details would be safe and I should sign the form and lets not start off by making things complicated or difficult for them or me. Again I’m almost sure he glanced a few times at my clenched fist with just my middle finger showing while rested on the desk and to make sure I rubbed my nose with it a few times while listening to him ramble on. He looked over to my date when I did this, I knew then my date had to have told the manager he thought I was giving him the middle finger. Obviously I knew they couldn’y say anything it would have been outrageous to even suggest it in a crowded office and I would have rebuffed it as being so, probably smiling at the same time.

    I think he still fancies me

    We have another date which he’s made for a few weeks time, inbetween I had to attend an effective job search group and a foundation interview skills one. I was expecting these and didn’t question them even asking him before his suggestion what training they could give me,shockingly I don’t have a c.v, explaing being self employed all my life I’ve never felt the need to show myself one or had an interviw for the same reaon. He did ask how I had been signing for a year without one which I responded with a smile and a shrug, he shook his head a little, something he will I think come accustumed to on our future dates.
    We parted with a just a firm hand shaking no tongues which again on a first date is to be expected, his eyes kept drifting though and again it was towards my other hand still held with the middle finger out, at the door I turned, he was looking with a not to sure look my way and so I thought a little flirting was ok so so gave him a pleasent wave and a wink. Hopefully until our next date he will be wondering if I’ve been saying up yours all the time or maybe I might want to actually shove it there.

    I’m going to make a nice cup of tea and then tell of my being a pain ways at the interview skills and job search groups which includes handing some usefull leaflets out to the group and placing a few in the wiondows of Ingeus it was great fun.

    The pain

  66. fuckedlungs says:

    Hi All
    Long time reader, 1st time poster.

    I am dreading going onto the WP, I am currently undergoing the dreaded ATOS test etc etc (but they will probably fail me anyway. Marfans syndrome, faulty lungs which can collapse at any time, unable to sit comfortably, needing the loo more often than not and other embarrassing situations.)
    I have read and re-read virtually every post more than once, and I love your tactics and advice I am finding it a blessing that theres kind hearted souls out there, who are willing to do the dirty work.

    After reading about CV’s I have done a little digging, as I often do and this is my conclusion.

    1) Put COPYRIGHT into the footer field, this makes it a unique document and cannot be transferred or passed on without explicit permission, as this makes it a licensable document or item, which also means that you could ask for them to licence it and it makes it potentially chargeable (this may be problematical) it could also be useful to put DO NOT DISSEMINATE or something similiar in the footer.

    2) Watermark it with either COPYRIGHT or DO NOT COPY

    3) Get a copy of PDFWEBCREATOR for free, and then you can add security to any document, which will disallow any changing, extraction or other stuff they may want to do to it.

    4) Instead of taking in a usb stick with a CV on it, put a copy on your phone, that way you wont forget the stick when you leave

    5) Make 2 versions of you CV a redacted version for others, and 1 version for your self and don’t mix them up give them names that you will remember and so you don’t pick the wrong one.

  67. Gissajob says:

    If anyone is being pestered by their pimp with unwanted calls, texts or e-mails then they need to read this:…other-way#7122

  68. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    Nobody’s posted here in six weeks. What’s happened? Have they killed you all? I hope not.

    Well as expected, the pimps put the squeeze on me a little. Didn’t think I was applying in the right areas. Though I have been able to keep them onside and so still report in via e-mail each fortnight.

    I’m still pissed off with the resumption of having to report to the desk drones at the JCP and their arbitrary times they give out to you. I see it’s no longer just morning appointments now. Is there anything worse than an afternoon appointment with the JCP or the pimps? GRRR! I suppose they need to give the desk drones something to do, but it’s probably just as much down to those arseholes who wrote their shopping list on the forms so now all of us are under scrutiny.

    It’s sad that they messed up the Directgov jobsite. This Universal Jobmatch bollocks feels like a grenade with the pin out. Can’t even get reference numbers to prove you have looked at the jobs. I had always preferred to note down the reference numbers beforehand instead of looking on those crap jobpoints. Will likely be forced to use them in future.

    Will this benefits shake-up in April take us all off the WP early? Do we serve out our ‘sentences’ before being thrown back on the JCP scrapheap? Interesting times. They haven’t yet invented a system that can get me a sustainable, tolerable job. No wonder this county is ruined.

    Victimize the unemployed whilst giving them no opportunities.

    Still no prospect of a job. 2013 doesn’t look much better than 2012.

    Stay strong.

    • I think most people are posting here:

      2013 is going to be the line in the sand I think. It’s going to hit the fan at some point in the next few months. Universal Jobmatch is the thin end of the wedge in my opinion and what’s legal and what the DWP can get away with is the next battleground.

      Good luck!

      • Mr No says:

        Hello out there!

        My appeal was unsuccessful. So I have recently sent off my form confirming I want to attend a tribunal. This could take anything from 6 weeks to 3 months to actually happen.
        But this is fine as i have a lot of stuff to go through. I really good use some good advice on how to proceed. I intend to try the CAB and another local ‘law centre’ type place, but as we know the quality of attention can be variable.

        The dwp are only seemingly addressing the 6 month sanction and the fact that i stopped complying with the mandatort jobsearch requirement. So at first glance it could appear I have little chance.
        They are seemingly ignoring the circumstances and perhaps unfair initial sanctions THAT LED TO THE 26 WEEK SANCTION!

        But one supposedly (?) can only address the issues that are contained in the huge A4 pile of legal bumph they send you. My argument is that I was wrongly sanctioned initially and maybe can somehow legally invalidate the 26 week sanction.

        But the fact remains that i did stop attending. it’s a tricky one.
        But i think i can see a valid case. And a couple of things in this big pile of legal stuff that forms the dwp side of things don’t add up. Possibly can help my case.

        I’m not expecting to win, but simply to state my case.

        Just thought I’d share. Sanction expires soon, Woohoo. I’ll feel rich! Lol.

        • gissajob says:

          Good to see that you’re surviving and still fighting.
          Keep on keeping on.

          • Mr No says:

            Thanks Gissa.
            Good luck to us all. I will resist all their bullshit until the day I actually can find a half decent job. And then apply for it. Get the job? Hmmm?

            I got a mandatory activity notice from the pimps today too. I guess I will ring them up and tell them I have no income yet so i cannot afford the advance fare. Not avoidance, just until I have an income. And I had an arrangement regarding such with a previous manager! So, bollocks to ’em.

            I’ll probably get a few weeks JSA and will have more sanction doubts raised. Because I just cannot go along with their silliness and borderline psychopathic behaviour.
            After the past 6 months I really am past caring. I may have to comply with some minimal activity, but as soon as they get silly with their suggestions I will be refusing.
            I’ll try not to get sanctioned though! Try! Lol.

            Take care.

  69. fuckem says:

    Where has everyone gone?

  70. Work Programme is fucking shite!! says:

    What is it with this fucking work programme shit. The cunts keep giving appointments that they fucking cancel without notice, give notice to attend workshops but give the wrong time, so when you turn up the fucking thing is finished. Then the mark your record as FAILED TO ATTEND!! WTF!! Is this so that when you do fail to attend some shite they can say to the decision maker Customer X has failed to attend on X occasions? Or is it a straight stitch up for failing to attend. This work programme shit is seriously pissing me off. I would sooner see everyone who is complicit in this shit BURN IN FUCKING HELL!! They should be dragged out of their fucking offices and SHOT the fucking lot of them. Pure and utter CUNTS!!

    • WP Victim says:

      Cancelling appointments and marking “customers” down as DNA (Did Not Attend) seems to be a common tactic by “work programme” providers to stitch up their victims for sanctions. RECORD EVERYTHING and keep EVERY letter, scrap of paper that they give you; you never know, you may have to defend yourself from sanction at some point down the line, maybe months after the alleged “offences”. Remember: you are dealing with SCUM!

    • WP Victim says:

      Cancelling appointments and marking “customers” down as DNA (Did Not Attend) seems to be a common tactic by “work programme” providers to stitch up their victims for sanctions. RECORD EVERYTHING and keep EVERY letter, scrap of paper that they give you; you never know, you may have to defend yourself from sanction at some point down the line, maybe months after the alleged “offences”. It can’t be emphasised enough: you are dealing with SCUM!!

  71. SIGN HERE! says:

    Hello everyone,

    First time posting, long time reader. I’m confused. Yesterday’s court ruling. As of yesterday, are we still on the WP or not? I understand that the ruling won’t affect MWA, but what about everything else? I ask, because while doing a couple of pointless hours of job searching yesterday, I came downstairs to find a message on the phone. It was from Avanta, who I haven’t heard from in months and months (coming up to the beginning of 2nd year) but now wanting me to ring them back and discuss how my job search is going! Now is this just coincidence, or somthing more sinister I’m wondering. I can’t be the only one becoming a bit paranoid after being with WP providers for a while.

    Although I don’t see why I should have to ring them anyway, I’m thinking that to keep them sweet should I, or if I don’t then will I have a letter telling me to go in to see them? Decisions, decisions.

    So any advice would be welcome.

    Not many people seem to post on here anymore. It would be a shame if it continues that way.

  72. agnes fairchilds says:

    Hello Sign Here, it has gone very quiet on this site. You’ll find quite a few have gone over to . Hope that helps

    • TheProxies says:

      But whoever runs it (Terratech) is an asshole. Read the forums and there is a part about protecting your privacy on the internet. Now go and try and register on whilst protecting your privacy and you will find that the dumbfuck admin had got every proxy on the planet on a blacklist. Well, fuck you buddy!! I would bet that you can’t even post on there whilst protecting your privacy. No. we don’t all want to be tracked down by the vindictive DWP you stupid fuck!!

      • anjil says:

        bad form that, mate…. could be the site in question is compiling a list of “dissidents”, we live in very dangerous times! take care!

      • Jelbel says:

        maybe the dude doesn’t know what he is doing, forum software can be tricky to set up. or it could be some sort of “mandatory” “activity” “in force” … :-)

      • gissajob says:

        I have posted there a lot but have now given up. The owner (Terratech) was always a bit of a self obsessed Citizen Smith type ( Prone to publishing over long and largely incoherent posts and intolerant of the (assumed) views of others. That was fine as long as he, could be ignored. However he seems determined to pick fights with a succession of people (most of whom only want to use the site as a source of information and advice). I am the latest in a long line and so have decided not to post there..

        • agnes fairchilds says:

          Glad you’ll still be about gissa, :)

        • Mr No says:

          Hey Gissa.
          Always had a bit of a vibe about that site. Hence I never signed up.
          I get what you are saying. Some good info from a few people, but it all seems a bit competitive. Or something?
          I did miss chatting to you guys, but just didn’t want to contribute there.

          Got my tribunal in a few weeks! Can I get decent legal advice? No. Spoke to a law centre, they seemed ineffectual and wanted to book me an appointment weeks away.
          The tribunal came through faster than they said! Anyway, I’m quite articulate when on form. i intended to represent myself anyway.
          I’m just going to tell the truth and hopefully my sanction invalidation angle might have some legs. The fact they fucked up initially could invalidate the fact it got to 26 weeks?Hmmm?
          Just having my day in court. I don’t expect to win, but it should be an interesting experience at least. And there’s always the possibility of the upper tribunal!
          I was giving thought to paying for a chat with a ‘proper’ solicitor. I guess that might be around 50 quid. Depending on the hourly rate. Hmmm?

          Hope all is well with you.

          Best regards.

          • gissajob says:

            Hi Mr.. No
            Presumably your sanctions were under the old regs (i.e. pre recent court of appeal ruling). If so is it not a valid defence to claim that the regs have been quashed and that therefore the sanctions are unlawful? Presumably you could add this point to ay defence you already have.

            • Mr No says:

              Hey Gissa.

              If you get a few minutes spare would you care to elaborate?

              The only recent court rulings I’m aware of are for the higher profile cases about the mandatory work activity. How they weren’t informed properly etc.

              I haven’t seen anything that hints at more general work programme sanctions like mine being unlawful.
              Well, to get all legalese for a second they arguably could be/are unlawful, but unfortunately not ruled illegal. If that’s clear?

              I was sanctioned originally before any non attendance took place from the supplied pimps records at least! That got me the two week job.
              Then through until the 26 week one. But after being treated like shit I felt justified to discontinue.

              I think the pimp put the doubt through because I didn’t stay long enough one day in their opinion, but at the time there was no stipulation of how long to stay each day.
              I’m hoping this could invalidate the whole shambles that was my punitive measure.
              Hard to pin it all down off the cuff like this.

              If I cannot get any legal advice i will just have to do the best I can. I will be telling the truth, but law isn’t always listening. Lol.


    • Billie says:

      I know what you are talking about, tried to sign up from library computer and just kept telling me I was on some banned list :-(

  73. SIGN HERE! says:

    Thanks @ agnes fairchilds. I do read unemployment movement forum quite a lot but there’s such a lot to wade through. I’ll have to become a bit of a split personality and read and post on both.
    Just wondering if anyone help with this?
    I now have a letter from WP’s stating I must attend (mandatory of course) a meeting this week, but that’s it’s held at the Jobcentre.
    I just wondered if anybody has experience of same. Wondering what it could be about.


    • Inuit says:

      Spooky! You would expect the jobcentre to send a letter to (mandatory) attend the jobcentre. How long you been on work programme? You never know what the fuckers are playing at. Good luck with it whatever it is!

  74. gissajob says:

    @Mr. No
    Hi You ask “If you get a few minutes spare would you care to elaborate?”
    OK – I’m not a lawyer but my understanding is that the court of appeal ruled that the regulations which were being relied on to justify and legalise all the forced work activity (including the WP but not MWA, which has different regs) were UNLAWFUL and were quashed. Hence the panic to bring out new regs and revised letters to make future sanctions lawful, However this is not retrospective so existing sanctions imposed have been done unlawfully! Now Iain Duncan Potato Head is having a hissy fit about the ruling and trying to appeal it to the Supreme Court, meanwhile they are refusing to refund the monies which have been unlawfully sanctioned.
    There is a trap here in that to get sanctions overturned and money refunded individuals have to make an appeal within a strict time limit. However the time limit can be extended if a good reason is given. The danger is that people will just sit back and do nothing until the supreme court rules (or leave to appeal is refused), this could take years by which time the time limit for appeal will have come and gone.
    What everyone who has been sanctioned under the old (unlawful) regs should do is register an appeal which includes a request for a time extension, and do this without delay.
    Now this sounds complicated but needn’t be!
    Helpfully the Child Poverty Action Group has provided good advice and wording for the appeal form.
    Have a look at their site here:
    the wording for the appeal document is here:

    Spread the word!

  75. Lumpenprole says:

    This site is popular.

  76. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    Well my pimp was disappeared/transferred, so now I have a new one. This one supposedly believes in actually helping people into work and not raising sanction doubts. They signed me up to that jobmatch crap. It seems I fell through the cracks, so now I shall get the WP experience. Luckily I only have to see them once a month (albeit having to show up there), and I only have several months of this ‘sentence’ left, not that anything good will come of this or at the end of this time. They will think up yet another system to fuck with us, rather than, you know, actually creating sustainable jobs or forcing employers to interview the unemployed.

    Lately I’ve been hearing that all the job websites are scams to get personal information, and most of the jobs either don’t exist or have already been filled. Talk about a hiding to nothing. So indeed there are no jobs, no matter what people tell you. Employment is a closed shop; no-one on the outside can get in, and those who are in are praying they won’t get kicked out. The economy is wrecked and they will make us a slave class. What a miserable fucking existence this is.

    Did you hear about Djamel Chaab? A guy in France who doused himself in petrol and burnt himself to death outside the dole office? This has been happening all over Europe. I wish I were that brave.

    I hope you don’t all stop posting here. Posting or reading about our experiences get each other though this, it certainly helps me.

  77. Mr No says:


    Hey Mr X. Glad to see you’re getting through it seemingly without too much incident.

    Just thought I’d pop in and say my tribunal is very soon! So soon that advice isn’t necessary!
    I have a genuine case, I am not into bullshit, i am going along simply because I always believe that if you are in the right you simply have to appeal and see it through. But can fully comprehend why many change their minds. I’m not stressed or fearing it, but there is a certain apprehension.
    I was overthinking it a bit, I then realised what’s in the notes combined with the truth out my mouth I cannot really make any mistakes. So I’m just going to play it by ear.
    Of course even though I’m genuine and will be speaking the truth, it’s no guarantee of success.
    I’ll do my best and just see what happens. If this fails I will be looking into appealing to the upper tribunal of course.
    This will be the first time I have ever been required to ‘defend’ myself legally. Never been in court or been in trouble with da law. A parking ticket many years ago if i recall!
    It’s a day out though and should at the very least be an interesting experience.
    I will of course report back what happened.

    Stay strong people.

  78. Gissajob says:

    My cup runneth over! Just returned from double jeopardy – a JCP signing on followed by a “review interview” with A4 greed. A new “adviser” at the JCP. I was expecting this as the previous one had told me that she’d found a new job. Now these things are a lottery and I could get the adviser from hell or strike lucky and get a decent human being. I was lucky – the new adviser seems like a reasonable human being. Not even a mention of UJM by the way.
    And so on to Emma’s pad:
    Another new adviser (my 7th), this time not because of someone moving on but just an internal shuffling around.. I appear to have escaped pointless jobsearches and courses at least for the time being with my next appointment in a month. Adviser mentioned UJM and said that it was mandatory from 4th March. I corrected him by saying only mandatory if a JSD issued by a FLA at JCP, so I wouldn’t be registering.
    Apparently I am nearing the end of 80 weeks on the WP and I was warned that I would have to attend a training course before being passed back to the JCP. There were 2 possibilities – one an intrernal A4greed 2 day affair and one a 2 WEEK external course run by some cowboy outfit called Charnwood training. I expressed astonishment at a 2 week course and asked what they were supposed to be teaching for 2 weeks. The answer? ” Soft skills and suchlike” (WTF for 2 ‘effin weeks?. – is this the famous Jonty Oliffe-Cooper “How to wipe your bottom” course???) . Anyway I am being recommended for the shorter version as I learnt how to wipe my bum over 50 years ago (and can still manage it). I did not have to demonstrate.
    I have looked up Charnwood Training
    Looks like they specialise in hospitality, security and catering. None of which I have ever done or have the slightest inclination to do!
    I was asked (again) for my phone number and declined to give it.

  79. I’d forgotten about this site. That’s the problem with the internet, it’s so fragmented. THat’s why we need a proper nationwide claimant organisation, they can set up a forum and moderate all the nutters! Don’t want no UKIP loons; there’s plenty of them in real life as it is!
    The WP is just a giant farce. No help, no support, all lies. They say one thing; they mean another. They have nothing to offer but are happy to take credit for your successes (if any) and then moan when you don’t get anywhere.

    • Gissajob says:

      Hi GW,
      Good to see it’s not just me here!
      I enjoy your comments over on the Guardian CIF pages where I sometimes contribute as Arbeit Macht Frei.
      I agree with your comment above. Trouble is that one man’s “nutter” is another’s “working class hero”. If you scroll back a few posts you will see reference to the Unemployment Movement website. I contributed there for a long time (hundreds of posts). I was then banned, I assume for urging people to sign an on line petition – this was branded “clicktivism” by the site owner who really threw his dummy out of the pram. He banned me and made various (previously useful) forums “member access only”.
      Ironically enough there are now posts on that urging the signing of on-line petitions!
      Sometimes I think that the opposition need do nothing to destroy us – we are our own worst enemies.
      Anyway keep up the fight. Good to see the Godbothering sally army is taking a bit of a pasting now!
      Do you still do your blog? I’ve lost the link – can you post it here?

      • agnes fairchilds says:

        Hi Gissa :)
        You want have been able to see this, but yesterday I had a message left on my phone from pimp saying that as I hadn’t responded to his previous messages/appointment letters he would be visiting me at home Saturday morning or Sunday if not convenient. I broke my golden rule of not responding to them and rang and left a message for him with the receptionist at el pimpo saying if he turned up I wouldn’t open the door and if he didn’t leave I would get the police to remove him. So far so good there’s been no sign of him as of yet and, not wanting to tempt fate, there wont be. A very, very angry Agnes.

      • Thanks!

        The link is:

        It’s the old story of divide and rule. One Bedroom Tax demo in Manchester I think had the EDL sniffing around looking to cause trouble.

  80. Mr No says:

    Hi there.

    Tribunal adjourned due to judge agreeing what a mess it all is.
    They need someone from the dee w pee to attend to help clarify matters. Ha! Good luck with that. They’ll attend with lists and figures, but the facts really should win through.
    It wasn’t intimidating at all, I felt quite empowered and was quite in control. Although before I went in I was a little apprehensive. But the thing is this wasn’t the pimps and it wasn’t the jobcentre. The pressure that is often felt when going to those places was absent from the tribunal, for me at least!
    The tribunals are impartial and they have to listen to you. Be cool and know what you want to say and it’s not a problem. Suppose it depends on the judge, as they say! Mine was a woman. Does this make for a little bit more compassion? Not really, but she seemed decent enough.
    She said some encouraging things. i might have a shot at this. But of course one must not get ones hopes up too much. Next round allegedly in 4-6 weeks or thereabouts!

    More time to get even more prepared.

    Had a funny one back at the pimps last week. The horrid advisor who started all this crap was expecting me to see her. i don’t know why, I was there to meet a new advisor in a little group session and she comes over requesting i see her, something about on a list. I point blank said no way! i stayed at this session with the new advisor and imparted to whoever was listening why i didn’t want to see this woman. I exclaimed to the whole table, including my new advisor that ‘She’s a wrong ‘un’. It was funny. The guy sat to my right had an issue with my old advisor too.
    Had a nice little chat afterwards. He reads the same sites we do.

    Hope everyone is well. Where’s spring? Brrr. Lol.

    • Gissajob says:

      Good for you Mr. No,
      More of us should make use of these tribunals (even without the benefit of legal aid). Make the barstewards work for their beloved sanctions!

  81. Gissajob says:

    In October last year I decided to find out what information A4greed held about me. Now I knew that if I submitted a Subject Access Request to them directly they would respond with a demand for a £10 fee, 2 items of ID to be sent to them and a 7 page form to be filled in (thus giving them even more data to peddle!). To avoid this I made the SAR to the DWP (as the data controller) and specified that the SAR included information held by A4greed as their data processor.
    After some delaying tactics on their part the DWP provided me with a print out from their system – all well and good but nothing from A4greed. I complained to the DWP. I then received a communication from A4greed asking for a £10 fee, completed form and 2 items of ID!. I did not complete the A4greed form but instead complained to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO).
    Out of the blue I received a further communication from the DWP enclosing print outs from the A4greed system. There was a grudging apology that these had somehow been overlooked in their first response. I assumed that the ICO had spoken to the DWP and had a “quiet word” about their obligation as as Data Controller. As an aside I do not believe that the A4greed data is complete but that is by the by.
    Today I have received a long letter from the ICO.
    Here are a few highlights:
    “On the basis of all of the information provided by you and the DWP, we have decided that it is unlikely that DWP has complied with the requirements of the DPA in this case”
    “From the information provided the DWP should have taken steps to ensure that they had fully complied with your subject access request including making sure their data processor A4e had provided all their information in response to your request.
    Although the DWP has explained they have spoken to you (they haven’t but have written) to apologise for the mix up we will remind them in our response of their responsibilities to ensure that future subject access requests are fully complied with.”

    So just a “ticking off” for the DWP this time.

    So if you want to know what your pimp has on you (without paying for it or providing ID) do a SAR to the DWP and specify that you want All information whether held on computer or paper including copy correspondence, e=mails,notes of meeting and telephone conversations.

    Should keep them busy.

    • agnes fairchilds says:

      Thanks Gissa, am going to send in SARs request after Easter, the pimps have rung me everyday this week without leaving a message, I hope my SARs request brings them as much joy as their attempts to contact me bring me.

    • agnes fairchilds says:

      ‘Although the DWP has explained they have spoken to you (they haven’t but have written) to apologise for the mix up we will remind them in our response of their responsibilities to ensure that future subject access requests are fully complied with.”

      Well that’s bollox, I’ve received the DWP stuff with a letter stating ‘please note that your letter has been forwarded onto pimp 1 and pimp 2 and a reply will be received direct from them’. It’s well over 40 days now and nothing. This rather contradicts the info given on this FOI request from DWP central FOI team:

      ‘DWP is the data controller not the provider, providers do not hold any information about DWP participants in their own right. Any SAR requests for DWP participants should therefore be sent to DWP. ..Providers receiving any SAR requests are required to notify DWP and provide us with the personal data they hold to enable the Department to meet our legal obligations. ‘ from

      Am now writing complaint letter to DWP.

    • agnes fairchilds says:

      Hope you don’t mind gissa but copied and paste the above over on UM as it will be helpful for others.

  82. SIGN HERE! says:

    Can signing-on become any more unpleasant? Off I went today, unable to cadge a lift from my son on his way to work because they’ve gone back to appointment times. I thought just handing a coupon in was too good to be true. It was.

    So five pound worse off I walk in to hear the words “I want him out of the office! Click, click of the fingers to the security guard. To be fair I think the poor bloke had had a drink, but he wasn’t shouting or throwing his weight about. I think he must have muttered something, but that made no difference. More talk of “you’ll have to leave the office. You won’t be able to sign on.” He tried to apologise and said “Please I’ve got to sign on…”. Pitiful is not the word. The moral of the story is, one foot out of line and that’s it, it seems.

    From there I was sent upstairs where the atmosphere was no better, so quiet you could have heard a pin drop. Most times unless you’re really unfortunate you do get a “hello, how are you” before the interrogation. Didn’t even get that today. In fact apart from “sign and date here” and “this is your next signing date” it was conducted in silence.

    And to top it all my next appointment is at 2.25. I hate having to turn out in the afternoon. So that’ll be another fiver wasted.

    All in all I know it could have been a hell of a lot worse. Thank for listening to the moan.

    Good luck people.

  83. Dexter21 says:

    hi everybody hope things are well
    i’ve not been on much lately has things are kind of slow at the moment.old pimpo seemed inundated with new meal tickets and have cut the “structured” job search sessions by time and quantity.tells you something there ! ,and because i don’t play ball by only signing for transport i’ve been in the naughty “parked” for sometime…well day one really ! lol.and until i find something which fits what i need. i.e. money,hours,distance and is a proper job throu a proper company that’s how it will stay.pimpo has changed course a little now thou “mandating” me too two *cough* sessons !. a “local labour market” session & “recognising transferable skills” session. yet another milk the tax payer waste of time made up think outside the box cobblers courses.what the labour market session entails i’ve no idea, so if anybody had any questions they’d like asking please let me know has i enjoy seeing there little puzzled faces go blank when they have no idea what to say when people have them questions.

    keep your chin up folks

    • SIGN HERE! says:

      Hiya @ Dexter21
      Your 2 sessions sound fun (not). “Local Labour Market” I wonder what that could be. All those “hidden” jobs just waiting to be found in Yellow Pages? As for “Recognising transferable skills” God knows. More money making twaddle no doubt.

      As for me, I was parked (quite happily) for almost a year after refusing to sign anything and then new girl starts, last one’s been promoted to “business manager”! I wonder how much that pays. Now I have to go in and do a jobsearch once a fortnight. She said she’s going to “leave me alone as much as possible”. I sincerely hope so. I haven’t got long now until I retire. I used to look forward to retiring, but not any more. They’ve demonised the unemployed, the sick and disabled and now it’s looking like it’s going to be the pensioners next. Pension Credit, a free bus pass and the local library are far too generous it seems. And God forbid anyone should have a spare bedroom.

      I’ve just been round to vote. Yeah, I know it was a waste of time, nothing to choose between any of them. None of them are going to change what’s been put in place now, but the exercise was good. Nice day out there. Oh well, better crack on with the jobsearch. All those wonderful jobs out there just waiting to be found.

      Let us know how you get on.

  84. smithnbloggs says:

    Fuckinell gissajob dude, thank fuck you’re still around, I witnessed things starting to get a bit weird between you and TT on UM just before I stopped visiting the site due to the fact a. not been pestered by pimps for a while, b. been doing a lot of rehearsing/programming/producing music with the band I’m in and c. for some of the reasons that other people have already mentioned with regards to the tone of how UM seems to be developing. It is weird because I don’t remember TT being like that when we were all posting on WP all those days/months/years ago, it is a bit sad really and it depresses me. I went on there a couple of days ago for the first time and noticed you were not in my friends list, had a look to see if you had posted recently, nothing but then I saw that there was another member by the name of Gizzer and presumed that was you and you’d created a new account as the site seems to of been updated since I was last on there because I had to re-upload an avatar on my page and thought that that may of been the issue I came back on here for the first time in ages and to be honest, expected it to be virtually silent as it was the last time I visited but I’m buzzin now it’s alive on here again. I posted this on UM earlier this evening and received a couple of replies but to be fair, I had already done a web search and found very little info about it myself so not expecting much more but will obviously appreciate your thoughts and suggestions, if indeed there any suggestions that can be made when there is very little info to base that suggestion on. Anyway, this is what I posted.

    Has anyone received the green and white 46 page booklet: JSA2 10/12 through the post yet or shed anymore light on what it is for? Is it just a formality so that JCP can update their new UC system or is it just another attempt of coercion by deception? The reason I suggest the latter is for one or two reasons for which I will put under the snappy little heading of, ‘Not Doing Exactly What the Bullshit Says I Must Do on the Tin’. Basically I have not only never signed anything with my pimps, ‘Avanta clue’ but also sent copies of: ‘Authority and Consent to Collecting/Gathering/Sharing/Disclosure of my Personal Information*’ off ‘consent’ to both local and head offices of Avanta and also one to DWP, my local JCP office and another to BDC, it’s a long story but you get the picture. Also on the font page of this booklet it has general information about why they have sent it, what to do, help with and what to do once you have filled it in and so on. In the ‘What to do’ bit there is a paragraph that states ‘Do not be put off because the form looks long. It will not take you as long as you think to fill it in. You will not (the word not has been crossed out) have to answer all the questions, one of them is asking for my home and mobile tel no, do I have to submit that information? Also on page 46 Part 21: How we collect and use information, it states that they may use it for any of the department’s purposes, which includes four examples, the one that seals the deal for them is the 2nd example, ‘employment and training’ i.e. ‘pimps’. I must also add that although the booklet is about JSA, the address of where it is to be returned to is a ‘Benefits Integrity Centre’ in Ramsgate, very sinister title. Should I be worried, cautious or both? I can’t seem to find any posts on here that refer to this. Any help or advice is, as always, very much appreciated dudes.

    Peace and love dudes!


    • Gissajob says:

      Hi Yes I’m still around but since being arbitrarily banned from the UM site I no longer post there. It may be vanity on my part (!) but it seems that the quality of comment and information on that site has deteriorated – of course as I’m banned I can only see the public forums so I may be wrong and the private forums may be full of scintillating threads, I do not know how TT’s mind works but it seems to me that he has banned a number of good contributors to that site, maybe he has done so to stop attention being taken from his own postings and obsession with various aspects. Who knows?
      Anyway I have had some dealings with the Benefit Integrity Centre (Hastings). Last year, completely out of the blue I got a letter from them with a form. I do not recall the form being massively long (I didn’t keep a copy) but I filled it in and returned it. In due course I received a letter from them which says ” We have recently reviewed your entitlement to Jobseeker’s Allowance. We have looked at the information you have given us and we have decided that your entitlement will remain the same”
      There then follows a reminder that “you must tell us about all changes etc. etc. etc.” and ends “Thank you for taking part in this review” (like there was an option!).
      Now I have no idea why I was singled out for this special treatment. As far as I know no-one had reported me and certainly my circumstances hadn’t changed. Like you I have been a “pain in the arse” to the WP, making compliants, making SARs, writing to MP, peaking to journos and complaining to the ASA but I really doubt that A4greed and the DWP are that coordinated that I was singled out for any reason other than it was “muggins’ turn”. In other words I think it was completely random.
      I suggest you fill out the form and return it and I hope you get the same innocuous result as I did.

  85. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    Still had no job interviews. Or hopes of getting out of this situation.

    I seen the second pimp a few times. I actually poured out my heart to him, saying (with some emotion) that I genuinely believed I would never find a job whilst the economy was in this state. And this obviously bleeds into my rather empty personal life, and my continuing struggle to keep going. He was unemployed for a while too. He became quickly aware that I was a inward person with a small comfort zone, but if I could find the right behind-the-scenes job, I could go far. He seemed to sympathize, but at the next couple of appointments alarm bells started to ring.

    I had to bring him photocopies of my ES24JP forms, so he could then pick holes in them. Telling me to use more than one website (Despite being able to make quite a lot of applications though that site. Their own site), and telling me to follow up on applications (What’s the point, if they’re usually an agency who won’t know who you are from Adam, let alone contact you? If they’re interested, they’ll tell you. Otherwise forget it and move on to the next application). I had also let the UJM signup lapse, as he wrote down my password. I signed up again a couple of months later. Boy, that UJM is pile of shit! As I said before, I miss the old one.

    When I mentioned to the pimp that I had a chance to leave town for a break at a friend’s place, he said that if he were being harsh he wasn’t sure if finding a job was my top priority, even though he admitted I was entitled to a break. I only told him this as he was trying to force me onto a three-day Mindset course which I then couldn’t commit to, as the break dates were not my decision. I hate telling anyone anything about my movements, I was able to have an out of town break back in November, in between appointments (my first break in nine years). In addition, it is a pain in the arse how the JCP and WP tie you down to your location, giving you little scope to travel on fact-finding missions to other parts of the country. If you have internet there, you can still apply for work.

    Then he started to play the ‘good cop-bad cop’ game, idly threatening to raise a sanction doubt – when I was suckered with a loaded question into admitting I did my ten applications a fortnight in part to keep the Jokecentre off my back (as I did not believe any of them would offer me a job) – then praising my ‘progress’ ten minutes later. These wild swings in the mood made me doubt if I could suffer dealing with this guy much longer. What was also bad was that the following appointment would never turn up, forcing me to endure 30-50 minutes of feeling verbally browbeaten. He did make a positive remark about my appearance though; I still show up there dressed in a suit (as part of my psychological tactics). He thought I had an interview! No such luck.

    I also attended a job fair (Remember them?) which was an utter sham, no real jobs, no sign of my local council which I was hoping to see, just mainly agencies harvesting data. It was only one room. I stepped out into the hallway and asked if that was all there was. It was. I did sign up with an agency just so I had something to report back to the pimp, he shat all over me anyway. I was truly gutted that nothing came out of it. My pimp had never told me about this job fair. I had noticed the advert for it at my pimp’s desk, and I asked for a copy without prompting.

    The pimp also gave me no choice but to attend a one week course (Ker-ching!) (No mention of the ‘optional’ shorter Mindset course); more CV and interview bollocks. My fellow WP compatriots made all the same noises we do about how pointless/demeaning/time-wasting this all is. One guy was an open rebel, he stated his desire to intentionally fail the course. The guy running the course was a nice guy though, and I picked up a few pointers. Still won’t improve the lack of jobs out there though. I/my CV still cannot stand up against the massive, insurmountable competition and experience there is for a bog-standard job. As smart as I can be, I am nothing.

    Luckily for me (I hope), this pimp has now moved on, but typically I wasn’t told our next meeting was cancelled. I had a letter for a different appointment but I turned up anyway as I am aware of the dirty tricks the WP play thanks to this site. I was told by a staff member that he had moved on. That didn’t last long. No doubt, he used it as a stepping stone. He is a superb mind-fucker.

    So this will now be my third pimp in about five months. I hope I can talk them into leaving me alone. My second pimp had to deal with 150 people, so God knows how many this one will be dealing with. I’ve now done a course, so they’ve had their pound of flesh. This one will be a woman, but I had a bad experience with one at AforGreed in 2011, so I hope this one isn’t like that one. Not sure if I can charm this one into leaving me to deal with my own business. I know now that my WP sentence does indeed finish at the end of this year, meaning those three months off I was given at the start did count toward it. I have to be very thankful that my first pimp pretty much left me alone for 15 months or so.

    Perhaps the numbers are in our favour now with the overflow of unemployed being forced to attend these places now; my JCP can barely deal with it. The powers that be have been trying to force us off benefits for years, but we’ve had to hang on harder then ever. We’re not going anywhere while there are no sustainable jobs, and yet they make us suffer for it and give us all the blame for it.

    Speaking of suffering, I’ve heard that the next stage after the WP is the slave labour deal. 35 hours mandatory jobsearch, or forced slave labour. Perhaps I will be better off attempting to find my own volunteer job, given that no-one will pay me minimum wage, let alone a decent (read:livable) wage. If I am to be a slave, better to try and have a choice about it. I am finding less and less reasons to live. People are now finishing their two year WP sentences without finding work, what a surprise!

    Create some fucking jobs!!!

    Oh well, at least there’s supposed to be a recovery in 2015 (or more likely, the 20th of Never). Too late for us though, we’ll be in the gulags by then.

    Stay strong.

  86. SIGN HERE! says:

    Hello everyone

    Good to see somebody posting on here again.

    My local WP has moved into plush new offices. We now have water and soft drinks machines in something labelled a “CLIENT BREAK OUT AREA”. You couldn’t make it up could you?

    I’m still going through the motions. The reason I’m looking in here today is I’ve taken a break while pondering whether to apply for a min wage temp admin job lasting 2 months. It has a very long application form. Now as the back to work bonus is no longer with us, is it worth going for I’m wondering. What’s worrying me is after the two months I’d have to sign up to Universal Credit wouldn’t I, or would I? Decisions, decisions. All a complete waste of time I agree. Most of the websites have the same jobs over and over, week after week. And noticed the one you wouldn’t mind going for is somewhere you just can’t get to.

    Is it just me or do any of you get butterflies as you go in to sign on? Last week they’d looked at my jobs search and sign here and there thingey and then she looked at the screen and said “your work programme comes to an end soon doesn’t it?” Now I’m only 14 months in and when I said “No.” she said “oh just something’s come up on the screen”. What the hell is that all about I wonder. Not Mandatory Job Activity rearing its ugly head I hope.

    Talking of that, I went into Asda the other day. I don’t usually shop in there but the first thing I saw was about half a dozen new automatic tills. Not the usual sort but these were conveyor belt type automatic tills. After all the thousands of hours of unpaid work they’ve benefited from and all the lies about it helping people into work by giving them experience and they’re even taking away the chance of a check out job. (With unpaid tea breaks of course).

    Don’t let them get you down Mr X. Easy to say I know.

  87. fuckem says:

    Nice to see people back on here keep your chin`s up the work programme disaster will soon blow up in there ugly tory faces the media are starting to report what a waste of money its all been stay strong and keep fighting

  88. Gissajob says:

    Some one at the DWP has made a cock up. This is of course no surprise.
    This is to do with WP returners being made subject to the Mandatory Intervention Regime (MIR} previously called Ongoing Case Management – that little turd Hoban’s “hit squad” approach.
    Having suffered 2 years at the pimps’ hands the prospect of immediately being sent on MWA by the hit squads loomed. Now according to the DWP guidelines for MWA (MWA guidance 23.07.12.pdf ) section 18 says:
    “Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must not be considered for referral
    to MWA:
    Those taking part in or recently completed another employment measure
    (contracted or non-contracted) aimed at helping them move closer to
    the labour market”
    In response to this FOI
    The DWP have confirmed that the WP is an employment-related measure:
    “The recorded information we hold that best answers this question is Regulation 3(8) of the
    Jobseeker’s Allowance (Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment) Regulations
    2013, which confirms the Work Programme is an employment-related measure. A link to the
    Regulations is provided below:

    Of course what is “recent” may be open to interpretation, But any interpretation of theirs could be challenged.

  89. fuckem says:

    Just watched nick and margaret we pay your benefits,And we are told we live in a free democratic country the bbc is a state owed media outlet this program must have been put together by Iain Duncan smith and the Tories hold your head in shame bbc

  90. SIGN HERE! says:

    .Totally agree @fuckem. TV prog was just as we knew it would be, completely biased towards showing the work-shy at their scrounging best. This week’s programme will be just the same. The claimants will be put to work doing a bit of manual labour. Now most of us know when you first go back to work after a period at home it’s a bit of a shock on the system until you get used to it again. But no doubt this will be shown as being further proof of how lazy and unemployable the benefit scroungers are.

    What I can’t understand is, why is this policy of poor bashing so popular with the public? Can’t people see that they’re all being lead up the garden path? Great article, I thought, over on “The Void” about the programme.

  91. SIGN HERE! says:

    Hello to anyone looking in.

    Went to sign on this week – still on late afternoon slot – still wasting a fiver to get there. This week got a really nasty, sarcastic piece of work. “Oh I see you’ve managed to find a FEW to apply for”. Now who the hell’s going to employ me anyway with five months to go? Then the piece de resistance “Are you signed up to UJ?” “We’d like you to register”. For God’s sake! Each time I asked whether it was compulsory the answers given were, “We’d like you to”… “It’s got some really good features on it” (Do you know of any? No, neither do I) and “It’ll probably be compulsory soon”. She finally did admit it’s not compulsory yet but still “We’d like you to. We’re asking nicely”.

    If someone’s got a minute can you please explain the options we’ve got, if any, in simple terms. Is there a way of getting round this without a load of hassle, or loss of benefits?

    If I don’t register before my next signing day will I get a doubt raised, or a Jobseeker’s Direction?
    If I did get either of those, or both, does it affect your benefits?
    And is registering the same thing as having to use the piece of rubbish? I know people have said you don’t have to give them access to your account, but are they getting round that one? The form she gave me just wanted name, NI no. and date registered. No box for consent to access.

    Oh and I’ve got the same cow next time. Fun times ahead I think.

    Take care.

  92. Brutus says:

    Please refer to the “Unemployment Movement” (search it on Google). You’ll find tons of info there.
    Not everybody is happy how the site is run but there are more contribution and help to be found.

  93. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    I’m the same as usual; still nowhere.

    My new advisor has been a relative Godsend compared to the mindfucker. I bluntly explained my situation and the mental/sociability issues that affect me. After our first meeting, my task was to sign up for therapy (I’ve had it twice before). It took me over a month to get an appointment, but I finally did that. I’m not sure these pimps can order you to take up space on the NHS, but it so happens that I agree that I could do with some therapy again. My last time was four years ago, when I was afraid to even leave my flat due to a local ASBO family. I got over that, only for the economy to collapse, consigning me to four years (and counting) of dole misery on these soul-destroying courses. My entire life has been one missed boat after another.

    So far, she has only kept me 15 minutes or so, which seems fairly standard. We are allotted a 30 minute slot, but the pimps tend to use the gaps in between WP victims. How else can they get their ‘work’ done? She’s also made positive references to my wearing a suit to appointments. But now I have to bring her photocopies of my ES24JP forms, so here we go again.

    On my last visit, my advisor said she was going on leave and therefore could not set an appointment within the usual 28 days, and asked me if there was any point scheduling one before the end. Weirdly enough, I said that having another appointment would be okay, seeing as there was six weeks to go. I must be a glutton for punishment. I hope I don’t regret that.

    In response to Sign Here, I don’t even bother with temp jobs. I know these are desperate times, but still. It’s a massive upheaval and the odds are you’ll end up back on the scrapheap, and the WP and its ilk will gobble you right back up. I only ever search for permanent jobs, so if I go into employment, I go for good. I never want to come back to this situation again.

    Incidentally, the changes they’ve made to the Reed site have ruined it. They’ve removed the two keyword searches that were very useful. Has anyone actually had success with a job website? These arsehole recruitment consultants that infest the job sites are the types that make sure I never make it to an interview. The old idea was that if you met 60%+ of the criteria, apply for the job. But these middle-men recruitment wankers will only ever take people who match 100%, and that therefore guarantees I will never make the cut. If an employer spoke to me, they may get a sense I may be worth taking a chance on, but there are few ways to apply directly to an employer these days.

    I also got butterflies when I sign on. They have eventually given way to bored resignation. Though I suffer constant anxiety, especially before I have to see the pimps, though tragically I have even gotten used to that. I despise this endless cycle so much I don’t really care anymore. If the JCP drones challenge me, I answer back. I just tell it like it is now, because it is the truth; I don’t believe I will be offered a job. Since I always fill my ten jobs a fortnight quota, complete with reference numbers, I don’t give them much to pull me up on.

    Funnily enough, a couple of months back a JCP drone said I could fill out a second sheet, and not to let myself be ‘restricted’ to ten jobs a fortnight. I told the drone in no uncertain terms that they were lucky I could even do ten in the first place. I would have been too scared to answer them back 5-10 years ago, but now I don’t give a fuck.

    As for UJM, it’s terrible. But as long as you fill your applications quota, they can’t really complain. I’ve been asked a few times if I use it, and I tell them I don’t, as it is crap compared to the old DirectGov jobsearch. I also told them that we can’t even get reference numbers from the ads anymore like we used to.

    I had to laugh bitterly at the news the other week about how the economy is supposedly turning around now. For who exactly? Not the likes of us, that’s for sure. As I said before, the economy will take years to recover, if ever. I am sure that if there are *ever* enough jobs to go around, they will be minimum wage fodder. Prepare for the rise of the ‘working poor’ (which should be an oxymoron in itself).

    I do think I could be a barometer for how good the economy is. If *I* can get work, then the economy must be booming. Until then, nothing.

    Has anyone started the new slave labour program yet? The first ‘generation’ of WP draftees must have started that by now. I’m sure we’d love to hear from someone on that. I am dreading it, as I only have six weeks left and I know I will cause a family argument when I refuse to work for £2 an hour in a sweatshop.

    At the Jobcentre, one of the drones told me that after the WP I’d have to attend mandatory appointments at the JCP, and will also *have* to use the shitty Universal Jobmatch. I suppose we’ll have to watch this space to see what they do with us next (apart from creating sustainable jobs that pay fairly, naturally).

    I would also like to hear if anyone has intentionally failed to show up, or deliberately got themselves sanctioned. Do you still go to the dole as usual? If they sanction your benefit money, but you still turn up at JCP, do they still have to keep you on the books? As I said before, I am forced to sign on for the status, not the money. Aside from my internet bill, my outgoings are minimal anyway. I am well and truly trapped as a dependent.

    It’s not nice to feel that everything is futile, demeaning or pointless. When you KNOW you will never make it to the interview stage, let alone be offered a job. To know that you will never leave home, have a job or have a love life. To not ‘qualify’ for any of the criteria for being ‘a man’; i.e., a job, your own place, etc. No prospects, that’s me. And the worst thing is that I am smart enough to realize it.

    Bring on the shrinks! I wish I wore a straitjacket sometimes.

    I do hope some of you keep posting here. It is a great help to know we are not alone with our frustrations.

    Stay strong.

  94. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    Thanks for the replies. Bit quiet around here in recent months.

    Well I finally made it past the finishing post for two years of WP nonsense. I survived. Looking over my numerous posts on this blog, it is sad to see all the angst and worry I have been through whilst KNOWING that the pimps wouldn’t get me a real job. We are the proverbial ‘Cockroaches-who-survive-nuclear-blasts’, they cannot shake us off the tree branches of state dependence whilst there are no real or decently paid jobs to save us from poverty. We cling on for dear life, just to exist, because we are given no real choice. Meanwhile the looming workfare slavery hangs over our heads.

    Anyway, what have I been up to? Well I didn’t see my pimp again; there was a meeting with one of the JCP drones at the pimp’s office which had seemed a little odd to me. I had a one hour meeting with this man who was quite sympathetic and answered the many questions I had as he reconfirmed my details. I have since seen him at the JCP and he would seem to be a worthy ally. He told me that I’d be signing on at the JCP as usual, although I would likely have to attend weekly instead of fortnightly. In response to my mentioning the prospect of forced slave labour, he admitted to me that after six months (April) I will be drafted into such a ‘program’. I immediately told him that my concerns went straight to that, as I had no faith in finding a job. To his credit, he tried to reassure me that something may come up. But sadly, I know that wanting something to happen doesn’t make it happen. I told him flat out that unless the economy changes for the better, I would be signing on until I die.

    I was then to be assigned a regular desk drone at the JCP; a reasonably placid guy, but the sort that wouldn’t do any favours. I still wear a shirt and trousers to every appointment, keeping it relatively formal so they find it hard to talk down to me. I told this guy my story and have kept him up to date with what is going on in my pathetic ‘life’. For the first couple of months I had to go there weekly which was a real pain, but since New Year they have put me back to fortnights for now, thankfully. I now fill in seven jobs per week on my jobs sheet, up from five per week previously. I still have my backlog of yet-to-be-reported applications to take the pressure off. It will get very busy in the JokeCentre in the coming months.

    Anyway, my main concern is this mandatory slavery that is due for me in April. One JCP drone told me that when the time comes I would either be sweeping the streets, looking after old people, or reporting to the JCP every day with detailed accounts of what I did to look for work. Very useful(!). When I asked my regular drone what he knew about this, he replied that he didn’t know much about it and couldn’t even tell me when in April I would be drafted for this abomination.

    What I have read recently is that some of our like-minded friends have fought to get this state sponsored slavery reduced to ‘only’ four weeks from six months or ‘indefinitely’. I’d certainly like to hear from anyone who is being put though this right now.

    I kept up with my shrink appointments, there were only half a dozen, so I completed that before Christmas. They were able to refer me to Remploy, who in turn referred me to a local mental health drop-in centre which ironically was in the same street as the pimp’s place, so it feels like I never stopped going there. This place is much better though. I deal with a caseworker there, and I have done some volunteering there, helping with admin. They get access to jobs, so they are really my best and only hope for getting a job, although they have wanted me to do some volunteering elsewhere first to add to the CV. They had me register for a local volunteering service recently which turned up a perfect little volunteer role for me, in a small quiet office updating webpages and social media for just a few hours a week. I wish they had paid jobs like this! I could be very happy if they did.

    I do have an ambivalent view of volunteering in general though. Whilst it is useful for adding to the CV, it is very easy to feel taken for granted and used. There is also the inescapable feeling that it is much more hard to make the jump to paid work now than in the past. I view paid employment as a closed shop, and to me it seems that volunteer or placement experience is simply not as valued as paid work experience.

    We have had the threat of workfare slavery hanging over our heads for years, I have heard that some groups in this country have already been put though it. It seems that it is finally coming to us, the masses of the unemployed and unemployable.

    It wouldn’t be so reprehensible or humiliating if one worked off their benefit in a relevant placement at minimum wage rates; so eleven hours a week for £70. But of course these bastards want us to work for 35 hours a week in a non-career-useful role at the equivalent of £2 per hour – less than one third of minimum wage, which is a flagrant abuse of the already laughable MW (£6.31). I mentioned this to a JCP drone who had no defence for it. Not to mention that being forced to literally sweep the streets is basically treating us like criminals who do community service, and it also undercuts justly paid roadsweepers.

    I do fear that despite my progress in volunteering, I will be unable to get a decent job before I am to join this mandatory chain-gang. It is an absolute disgrace and degradation. It is a travesty that these so called politicians cannot (or will not) fix our poor economy, preferring to endorse the new slave class being created from the millions of unemployed who are to be marched into forced labour under threat of losing their small amount of benefits that enable them to eat and have somewhere to sleep. Still, it gives the politicians more time to have their endless pissing contests, rather than working for the benefit of the nation and it’s generally unhappy and put-upon people.

    I’m considering wearing a suit to my ‘Soviet salt mine duty’, perhaps best to make things as absurd as possible. Perhaps we should wear t-shirts that just happen to mention that workfare is slavery, undercuts the MW, and that anyone could be next if they happen to lose their job.

    I don’t know how I still manage to stay alive like this; struggling through day after miserable day. Applying for jobs that don’t exist and never ever getting an interview. Having to deal with job sites ridden with ’employment consultant’ middle-men scum who ensure I will never make contact with an actual employer, let alone get a genuine paid job. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I guess I must be insane. Well so are the politicians too, for putting us though endless variations of this living hell instead of creating real, decent paid jobs.

    This round is over. The fight continues.

    Stay strong.

  95. fuckem says:

    Hello it is a bit strange on here now it used to be such a great site with everyone sharing their stories of what the bastards are doing to us, I have had some good luck got myself a job doing what I have done since leaving school (building trade ) and not some crap they tried to get me doing , The work programme was a piece of piss I went about 6 times over the two years I was on it but I think I got back into work at the right time as I had a bitch as my personal adviser back at the job centre ten times worse than at the pimps anyway will still keep looking in from time to time I know its hard but don’t let the bastards grind you down

  96. Proverbial Cockroache says:

    Hello *waves* I’m still here lol :)

  97. agnes fairchilds says:

    I still pass through now and again to see if anyone’s added anything. Where have you gone Jack? PS pleased for you fuckem on the job.

  98. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    Well we are truly heading into the mire, eh?

    This latest ‘Help to Work’ bombshell has continued to pile more misery onto those of us trapped in unemployment. Daily signing at the JokeCentre or six months of slavery. Not much of a choice.

    Luckily, daily signing is not feasible as they simply don’t have the staff to cope with all of us, and they are cutting staff as well. I hear the slave labour placements will be brought in at the end of this month though there has been quite a backlash on social media. Here’s hoping it can be chipped away to nothing until it becomes as toothless as the useless/pointless Work Programme was.

    I have been told that I will be signing weekly again as I had done back in the autumn, which is a pain but it’s better than doing it daily. I think it does help if you already have a volunteer job and are up front with the JokeCentre drones, so they may not draft you. I heard something about their categorizing us into three groups, so hopefully we can stay in the ‘leave them alone’ group.

    My volunteering is going well, but still isn’t very likely to get me a paid position there or elsewhere. I will try to stay there as long as I can until the JokeCentre force me to leave for their gulag work, or by some divine miracle I actually get a real paid job.

    I was amused to hear that we have almost recovered from the recession. Lovely! Finally got back to 2008 levels; but now SIX years behind. This isn’t over by a long shot. Growing population, stagnant wages, sky-rocketing costs of living. Some of us will still be on the outside looking in for a few more years, with the state trying to destroy us while they waste billions in foreign aid, the EU and other less deserving beneficiaries. They still have to scapegoat the unemployed though, during the worst recession ever.

    I can’t see how it is good for the economy if everyone is on minimum wage (or less) and has nothing left over to spend. It is staggering how many people are needing to have their wages topped up with in-work benefits. A happy workforce is a productive workforce, not a skint workforce.

    Anyway, it is nice to see that some of you still look in here from time to time.

    Stay strong.

  99. Gissajob says:

    Thought I’d just register a presence.
    Update – I have finished with all the Work Pogrom/JCP/PWPS nonsense. I signed off – just saying “my circumstances are changed such that I no longer wish to claim”. In effect I am of such advanced age and limited financial resources that I can survive until pension age without recourse to benefits. I have to say that the sense of relief at knowing that I never have to enter the doors of the JCP or any of the pimps is enormous, I say this not with any sense of gloating – it’s just a fact. In spite of my new found freedom I still feel a sense of outrage at the system and the treatment of the unemployed. I wish you all well and hope that things improve for you all. I will think of you all as I’m digging the allotment (got to eat somehow!) In the words of Mr.X “Stay Strong”.

  100. Bernard says:

    Good to see people still posting here. After my time on the Work Programme ended last November, I was put on PWPS and sent on MWA. The ‘work experience’ had nothing to do with my qualifications or my work history. I spent a month cutting trees in a forest. Soon after that I landed a decent job, so no longer worry about constant harassment from the Jobcentre for a measly £70.00 a week. Keep fighting.

    • Gissajob says:

      Good for you Bernard, well done. I bet that getting the job was down to your own efforts and nothing to do with Work Pogroms/WP/Poverty pimps etc.!!

  101. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends.

    It has been a while. It’s been dead here. Hope you’re all well.

    I’ve been told I will have to start signing on daily at the JokeCentre after my next appointment. This nuclear bombshell was first laid on me back in late November, but luck and chance has thankfully delayed things so I could at least enjoy Christmas. It’s always a bonus when your signing week clashes with the holidays and you get a four week break from that miserable place. Sure enough, the daily travel costs will immediately deduct £15 from my JSA; feels like being under 25 again(!).

    I was passed on to another desk drone – another placid and reasonable bloke, for a few months. Since the summer, I’ve been posting my applications history on the activity section of the much lambasted, and otherwise useless, Universal Jobmatch website; so I at least I have saved several forests worth of paper from my fruitless form-filling, and don’t have to transcribe them anymore. Then I was passed around the office for a couple of months, as the next new drone was off sick endlessly, then I was snapped up by yet another drone who gave me the good news about the daily signing.

    I made about 400 job applications in 2014, and only got one interview and one phone screening. Neither were successful, but I took hope in coming closer than usual to the glass ceiling. I didn’t even make any mistakes or give bad answers, someone else was just better. Not much has really changed since the end of the failed Work Programme, but now the state is preparing to fuck the long term unemployed even harder, and even the desk drones aren’t in approval. They have been relegated to box tickers, giving very little advice or help beyond basic common sense. There has been constant worry for me all year, but looking back, very little actually happened until now. So much wasted stress.

    I am still in touch with the mental health drop in centre; they still mail me jobs, none of which have been right for me, many of them apprenticeships that I am ineligible for due to age. I have also been in touch with a department in my local authority who are trying to get local people into local jobs (Who’d have thought that?!?). I had a screening that wasn’t successful but they kept my details on file and I had a few meetings with them. It went quiet for a few months, but now I am back in touch with them. I was advised to check out JobsGoPublic, and am now even working on a job application with my local authority. No expectations of course; I know I am cursed.

    I am still volunteering, and I seemed to be doing well there. They floated the idea of offering me a little bit of wages back in June, but I was non-committal at the time as the wage would be less than the JSA I get, but this daily signing nonsense had made me reconsider that as a way of finally getting off this bastard dole. When I brought it up again in November, they had forgotten about that earlier offer, but after a few weeks they said they would talk to me again about wages – even talked about expanding my role, only to forget yet again this month and then even asked if I could still come in to work in spite of the daily signing.

    I regularly update them about the goings on at the dole, so they seemed to be sympathetic, but now keep flip-flopping in the possibility in giving me wages. I should have snapped their arm off last June. I will have to leave, now that no concrete offer of wages seems to be forthcoming, as I cannot balance daily signing with volunteering (my mood would be too foul, for one); so the dole fuck up another hope of mine, the obstructionist tossers. I had wanted to reach my one year anniversary at my volunteer job, now it’s all but done for. I was also looking into doing a flexi-time catalogue job, but I haven’t heard back from them; and the job may have been a bit more involved than I was looking to be anyway. So after a month off from having to use that crappy Reed site, I have had to return there with my tail between my legs to make my pointless job applications again. Oh joy.

    From high hopes of getting two lots of paid work just a week ago, now all hope seems to be lost. If the volunteer job I have been at for almost 11 months won’t (or can’t) hire me, what the hell chance have I got elsewhere? All the supposed progress I have made in the last year has seemingly been for nothing. My CV will never do me justice. I will always appear to be a late starting non-achieving failure. I have resigned myself to signing on every day for as long as I can suffer, maybe a week or two at most. Perhaps going on ESA again might be worth a shot, if only to try to break my JSA claim for six months so I can start from zero again.

    They are certainly driving me deeper into my endless depression. I think that perhaps the daily signing is due to the fact that the last break in my JSA claim was almost three years ago (As I posted here at that time, it was due to an operation). As I have said before, family pressures stop me from quitting benefits altogether (as much as I would dearly love to), due to rent and council tax rates. I wish I could live ‘off the grid’, if only to focus purely on looking for work without worrying about justifying myself all the time (every day) to a desk drone.

    I hope and pray I can finally break free of this shit even if I am earning less then fifty/hundred quid a week. Would it kill someone to offer me a part-time job at least? Are there no jobs for shy social misfits like me? Anything is better than going to the JokeCentre every day. Unfortunately, my terminally bad luck with joblessness can’t keep me out of that shithole. I’m sure that when I die miserable, poor and alone, my next life will be as a JokeCentre drone. AARRGGHH!!!

    I watched Boys from the Blackstuff on YouTube over the past few days. So sad how history repeats itself. Gizza job. Go on, giz it.

    I hope some of you have had better luck than me in getting off benefits and into decent paid work.

    Stay strong.

  102. fuckem says:

    Stay strong Mr X

  103. Mr. X says:

    Cheers mate. Hope you’re doing well in your job. I have to try desperately to stay strong as I have no other choice.

    Well I’m just about surviving on this ridiculous daily appointments nonsense. It will last three months – so just about survivable. Two weeks down, ten more to go. Just in time to give me a few weeks respite until whoever wins the election will make things worse either by bankrupting the country, or making sure we can’t eat. British politics is an absolute shambles. What hope is there?

    The ESA idea has had to go on the back-burner for now. It’s too much to deal with at the moment. It seems like they’ve made it almost impossible to claim now anyway. The medical certificate is also required up-front now, I believe. A few years ago you could claim first, then try and get the certificate.

    Luckily for me the JokeCentre will give me one day off for volunteering – so I can stay on there after all – and can get further days off for appointments (like with the people from my local authority who are helping me apply for work), plus screenings and interviews. So on a decent week I only have to go to the JokeCentre three days a week, though it will probably be more next week. The next ten weeks can’t come soon enough.

    I suppose it will be ‘fun’ seeing my desk drone run out of things to say at our regular and pointless meetings. There’s only so much hackneyed half-baked motivation they can give; ‘You can do it’, etc. The most useful thing they could do for me is to provide me with a bed there so I can save my bus fare for food costs.

    Stay strong.

  104. fuckem says:

    This might cheer people up a bit

  105. Mr. X says:

    Hello friends. No-one is left here anymore, but I’ll put out an update anyway.

    I got through the three months of bullshit daily signing last spring. After, I went through four apprenticeship interviews, two of which I failed, one I got very close on and the final one I actually got. Shock, horror! Mr. X got a job! Then, as only can happen to me, tragedy strikes a few weeks later; my mother died unexpectedly at age 53. I found her. I am devastated and I will never be the same again. I started the job five weeks later thanks to my DBS check taking two months. Funnily enough, the DBS arrived on the day of my Mum’s funeral. As an only child with both parents gone now, only I can deal with this agony. I have a family friend in his eighties who has been a great help to me, although we are as devastated as each other.

    My Mum knew I was getting the job and was proud regardless, which is a small consolation, but she should have lived to see it happen. I had his horrible feeling that once I had gotten a job, she had ‘served her purpose’ and was taken from me. As if she needed to go so I’d be forced to look after myself. She should have lived another 20 years and benefited from any success I had! I felt terrible on my first payday, as my Mum deserved that money. I could imagine my pride at offering her the money and her pride in offering it back (I’d have insisted she kept it).

    Now, for the first time in my life, I have to get used to living alone and supporting myself. I was fortunate to inherit the tenancy, so that’s something. I have vague (and likely vain) hopes of retiring before my 60s – as well as relocating to another part of the country – and so I am living as frugally as possible to save up money, although to be honest, death cannot come quick enough for me. I have been depressed all my life and now I want it all to be over. Fucked up timing, eh?

    Despite some good things, like finally earning money for the first time in my life and working very locally, it has been hard, both emotionally due to the grief and mentally in general. I never really knew what I wanted to do and so settled on looking for office work almost by default. Then I found that I am certainly not cut out for office work, due to my intense hatred of using phones. I haven’t enjoyed studying again after a decade either. Pressure and exams, etc. Adult education is an absolute racket. I come home wrecked and can barely recover by the next day. Fuck knows how people have social lives outside work. Too much bother for me. I’d sooner stay indoors and shut the world out. I’d settle for a girlfriend (Chance would be a fine thing!).

    I am starting to look for another job and I need to get one sorted by the end of the apprenticeship in July. The question is still what job can I actually do? I must work locally, so that does limit me. I hope to find an internal job where I am now, but almost none of those jobs are misanthrope-friendly either. So I may end up back on whatever they call the dole now. One of the worst things I can think of is being asked to stay on where I am now. There is too much pressure and not enough people to deal with it all. I’d rather sweep the streets or work in facilities or park maintenance, but those jobs aren’t available here.

    So, finally getting a job was supposed to be the best time of my life. It turned into my worst.

    Needless to say, I won’t tolerate long-term unemployment again. I’d sooner hang myself. That’s if a shitty ‘people-job’ doesn’t make me do it first.

    Goodbye and good luck to you all.

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