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Greetings, fellow layabouts. shirkers, scroungers and parasites. My apologies for the prolonged neglect but it’s been one computer disaster after another. I won’t bore you with details but suffice it to say, my machine is back to working order and I now have a back-up machine…just in case.
I hope you’re all weathering the laughable ‘Work Program’? When I last reported, I stated that I had been well and truly ‘parked’, with the time between my appointments growing ever longer. I had an appointment today (the first in 6 weeks) but I got a call from my ‘advisor’, cancelling and telling me that they’d be in touch sometime in the middle of next month.
The rather sheepish explanation for this was that “…we’re changing the way we see people…”; whatever the hell that means.
I suspect that what it actually means is that they’re coming to the realisation that they’re on-board a sinking ship. They tried bailing but the water is coming in too fucking fast so it’s ‘away all boats…’ and the (doubtless vain) hope that they can salvage something from this entirely predictable (and predicted) mess.
What this will mean for us, I can’t say: I suspect I’ll get passed on to one of the bigger ‘providers’ at some point. Then again, the big providers must be coming to the same conclusion, to wit: they can’t make any money out of this ill-conceived scheme. Will they be willing to take on more ‘clients’? I have my doubts. Then what? Do we all get shunted back to Job Centres?
Watching these rapacious and unprincipled cunts come an expensive cropper puts a spring in my step and song in my heart. I can’t wait to see Duncan-Donuts and Grayling try to put a positive spin on this multi-billion pound disaster in October, when the Work Program stats are published and there’s no place for the fuckers to hide.
I know, I know…gloating is so unattractive; but sometimes, it’s the only appropriate response and I intend to indulge in a gloat-fest. I imagine I won’t be the only one.
So take heart, comrades: all we have to do is wait a little while and then we can crack a bottle, fire up a spliff and sit back and enjoy the sight of these Tory scum squirming away…happy days.
thiefofbaghdad.wordpress.com 
Hello again, I believe you’re with the same ‘charity’ I was/am with, if you are they are doubtless as hopeless developing your career as they were with developing mine. If you are with the same one they are teamed up with these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximus_Inc they could be the next port of call.
Hiya Jack. Been wondering where you were. They haven’t ground you down then. Which is good.
I have been unparked, bullied and mandated all on my second appointment! Nearly 6 months after induction! If I turn up to my mandated 3 times a week “until further notice” intensive jobsearch then no sanction. Well, until they find another excuse to sanction.
The thing is in this huge farcical grey area of the black box is that possibly they’re acting outside their remit? Signed nowt, have no action plan etc. Hence bullying and harsh mandation? Fuck knows?
I think I’ll take my chances with a sanction and a strong complaint about the disgusting attitude and treatment. I feel I have to test the waters. I could cave and attend, but I would feel like a bit of a hypocrite. Hard call. Play it by ear.
Anyway, good to see you back, Jack.
Welcome back Jack.
Missed you!
Hi, Agnes. I suspect you’re right re: Maximus. When I was first told I would be consigned to the WP, I did a bit of googling to discover who the providers are in my area (East London). They were CDG (whom I’m currently with) and Maximus. So I expect they’ll be my next port of call. Just another shower of greedy incompetents. If I can’t make their lives a misery, I’m not the man I think I am.
Sorry to hear of your tribulations, @Mr No…persevere, my friend. Time is on our side. This whole ghastly joke is going to collapse in a welter of excuses and recriminations and it won’t be long. Stay strong.
Thanks, @gissa…good to be back.
Welcome back. I think i’ve been parked too.
I’d like to think that the truth will out in October, but Grayling is a lying wanker who will no doubt distort the numbers to suit himself. He’ll do anything to present this silly programme in a positive light, and has been caught bullshitting many times now.
As much as i hate to, it makes me literally feel sick. But i am going to attend at least the first 2 jobsearch sessions. Just to see how they treat me after my shambolic appointment.
I should have given an email, I was silly really. But the manager (who turned out to be just as bad, just more careful with language) confirmed this to my adviser who quickly got bitchy, but just staying on the right side of wrong!
So, therefore, in my estimation at least this led to mandated triweekly visits.
It’s been suggested to me that possibly they are acting a bit hasty because i have no action plan in place, it wasn’t mentioned. Too busy heating up the discussion I guess?
If I simply do not attend this week they will initiate a sanction. And maybe the JC will accept my views prior to such and not sanction, or if they do the DM ‘may’ not sanction?
The provider doesn’t sanction, as they love to state, but my mandation letter states in red type “if you fail to attend this appointment I will have no choice but to sanction you”.
Signed by my adviser! I had better go though really, it doesn’t mean that I cannot complain next week. Writing coherent and accurate letters can take time. And when one is rather stressed this can impede such. And attending might show that at least i gave it a go. Hmmm? And maybe offer them an email in exchange for the jobsearch to cease. That might be interesting.. I don’t fancy the sanction just yet!
And this bunch i’m up against are most unpleasant characters.
Phew! Definitely playing it by ear. They certainly treat you as an individual when the one size doesn’t fit you. Not in a good way!
Trying not to let the bastards grind me down.
I went to the pimp for intensive jobsearch this morning.
Office was not busy, the bitchy ones who ganged up on me last week weren’t there, my (also patronising and insincere) adviser was though.
Just given a form for jobs by the receptionist and she told me how to log on… Straightforward enough.
After about 45 minutes my adviser comes over asking (instructing?) me to “apply for 8 jobs today”. I think muttered Hmmm? Or similar. 8 jobs? Lucky to find 8 suitable jobs in an average month these days! And the JC seemingly don’t mind or care. Shortly after she comes over asking what I’m looking for, so I say and give her the ‘diplomatically’ put truth about the job market. “Do what you can, see if you can find 4”. She then said. Giving it all the ‘I’ve been there anecdotes mixed with some sales patter and armchair psychology, the usual stuff.
I said how long can i expect this 3 day a week thing to go on. “See how it goes, could be a couple of weeks, a couple of months”.
I will just keep on about it. How long is the piece of fucking string? From what i gather my guess is that it may depend on how sparce my job sheets remain. Or not? Hmmm?
I’m thinking this wouldn’t necessarily get me sanctioned if I stopped attending, possibly under the ‘Is it reasonable in the clients circumstances’ bit of the guidance.
And it was punitive for asserting my rights to not sign stuff or supply an email. Which manager confirmed to her at unparking. And hence bitchfest and heated discussion.And therefore if it goes on for too long I will be complaining. Also have my own internet access.
Still feel like complaining about the ganging up and nastiness at my unparking appointment recently. Hmmm?
But i thought it might go in my favour if I attended. For a while at least.
During the exchanges I enquired as to how long I was expected to stay each day, no straight answers you will not be surprised to hear. After 2 and a half hours and a blank job form I left for home. She was out of the office so one will see how that went down tomorrow. It was nearly lunchtime anyway and I’m not going to pay for lunch and go back am I now? I stated during our brief exchanges that i didn’t intend to stay too long, seeing as it’s 3 days a week. Had a chat with a couple of fellow detainees. One of them thought I worked there. “Gosh no!” i replied.
More fun tomorrow.
Hi Mr. No
You are obviously being put through the mill my friend!
Just remember these people are not well organised and make loads of mistakes.
Continue to be as assertive as you are comfortable with.
You are more intelligent than them
You have right on your side.
Enjoy the enforced role of third columnist
Spread the word.
Spread dissent.
Look upon it as free internet access/coffee/travel to town centre.
Keep posting.
I think there’s grounds for a complaint here (not least of all because you are entitled to not be bullied).
If they are saying ‘you must apply for 8 jobs’ then surely it is up to them to give you 8 jobs to apply for. If you are then being left to your own devices to find 8 jobs with the impression that if you can’t/struggle then you will be blamed then I cannot see how they can justify this at all.
Now I’m not being naive here. I know full well how this shambolic programme operates, so my advice would be, if you’re in this situation, to ask them to provide 8 jobs to apply for. If they then fob you off with ‘we’re not here to hold your hand’ or some such bollocks, then I think any claimant has serious grounds for a complaint.
Of course there’s the issue of a burden of proof, but then they should be compelled to produce evidence of the support in this respect, which theyw on’t be able to provide. If they aren’t going to help you then don’t waste your time; don’t bother to play ball. These people are meant to be helping us, the onus is on them. That’s why they are being paid. If they won’t help then they can’t prove a case against you that you aren’t doing nothing.
Fuck these liars.
They will just say some bollocks like: “We are not here to help you, we are here to help you help yourself”.
Hi all.
Just got back from my mandatory jobsearch. Pointless. Same lack of suitable vacancies as yesterday!
Adviser is trying to ‘manoeuvre’ me into certain areas of work it seems.
Of course, as we know, we have to widen the jobsearch, but she is ‘suggesting’ certain things to me. I didn’t agree, but said I’m open minded, which i am. But stipulated that anything offered would have to be judged on the merits (if any!) of any vacancy. This was only written down on a blank piece of paper. Haven’t agreed as such. Just ideas. Kept it quite vague. Nothing that can be made to stick. Though who knows with these idiots.
So I find myself having to play the game. I hate ‘playing the game’, but one has to with these pimps!
Spent 2 hours there and was thinking of going, but then she grabbed me for the ‘chat’ I mentioned above! She said about taking a break, but after 2 hours and lunchtime approaching my ‘break’ was home for lunch because that was enough jobsearch thank you very much.
Due there again friday, but I’m signing on and am going to try and get to the CAB too. I will be giving the 24 hours notice required if one cannot attend. And bollocks to them if they don’t like it.
If i am asked at my signing appointment ‘How’s the work programme going’ I will say ‘Early days’ again, because I’m wondering if you had something bad to say this could hold up them signing you on. Possibly? Once signed on though i intend to ask who (if anyone?) is the person there to speak to if one has any questions, initially I predict they will say ‘Ask your provider’, but what if you need to clarify something? Like my unreasonable mandatory jobsearch, for example? No one wants any accountability these days it seems.
My pimps think that i am just accepting this. How wrong they are if so. Slowly and surely,
Jack glad to see you back.
As for Mr No’s plight, it can happen to all of us. However I personally prefer the “pretend to get along but wear them down” strategy.
They have not enough resources to follow through punishments. In addition their management is likely a mess and have new priorities all the times and no coherent strategy.
Doctor appointments, visiting “external advisers”, attending JSA jobsearches (ie taking few slips out of the job-search machines they have there), going for “employers” visits, might be used as excused to not attend the mandatory visits. I imagine that after a short while they would have other things to attend and the all process may lapse into desuetude.
If all else fail maybe a sympathetic doctor (if they exist) could diagnose some stress induced ailment (for instance migraine, dizziness or suspected epilepsy) if at all possible any type of suspected infectious disease would prevent you attending.
Keep posting and stay strong. These evil days will pass.
Sorry to hear of your awful situation with the WP Mr. No, they are truly taking the piss. My own situation at moment is not too bad at the moment, one appointment per month, with no other attendance requirements, but as the poster above said, this can happen to any of us, at any time. I strongly feel this whole farce of a Tory government and WP, will come to a crashing end very soon. Keep fighting.
Thank you Marcus and Bernard and all for your words. Appreciated.
I refused all that I could seemingly legally refuse. As it currently stands I take their mandating me to confirm that you indeed can refuse to sign stuff and refuse contact details.
Although they have mandated me to thrice weekly jobsearch in an attempt to punish me for declining all this stuff… Rather importantly they didn’t (or couldn’t?) initiate a sanction due to this.
But nastier pimps will whoop yo ass instead! And as Marcus warns, it could happen to any of us.
I am never complacent. I do these things knowing it’s a bit risky. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if at some point the JC want a chat inspired by pimp tittle tattle. Or maybe not, who indeed knows? \
Keep posting. That means you too. And you. :)
Ok… The sanction threat has arrived.
I’m angry, I’m shaking. Having palpitations! Hopefully it’s just the flight or fight response, adrenaline etc. But I’ll probably be calmer tomorrow.
Had my heart health checked a couple of years ago, One of those stress test ecg on the treadmill. And it went well, didn’t indicate anything untoward. I’m typing this partly to kind of dispel such stress induced insecurities, that might sound really silly, but some might know what i mean. I’m not even sure i do right at this moment.
Signing on tomorrow, or rather later today! Hopefully the pimps wont have had the time to inform them, And If not will then get what will probably be my final payment. Or not?
Might be a good thing if they have though. I can then inform them I cannot return to such a morally corrupt coercive environment.
Can they ‘rack up’ sanction doubts for every appointment missed? If so, next week will get me straight to 6 months! Stuff I have read infers this can happen. What a joke. Entitlement doubt? That’s what the particularly vindictive usually would go for.
Payment or not, I will have to inform them of this intention to not go back (but not refuse WP, alternate provision perhaps?) before my next signing. Unless of course I’m ‘confronted’ tomorrow. I shall be calm. as I’m typing i am almost resigned to the fact that I will be without an income now. Or until I can find any old job that I’m capable of.
Of course I will exhaust all appeals etc, but i cannot spend too much energy on it. Time to find another way. As friends have said, is it worth the psycholgical bullshit. Especially as my circumstances aren’t dire.
I know I have been a rebellious pian in the arse to the pimp, but this isn’t what the sanction will be for. Which will be interesting. Unchartered waters ahead. Mind you, As I’ve stated many times, i am lucky, i wont be homeless. I’m not a householder. I will eat.
But the job market isn’t going to improve, and those silly little part time jobs that one sees are starting to look really attractive. But many are chasing those too. Probably the recently sanctioned! Anyway, that’s all stuff to consider.
i’ll keep you guys appraised of the state of play. As soon as i know exactly what I’m dealing with.
Hence I haven’t disclosed what led to this. A typical pimp psychopath type for an adviser hasn’t helped!
Some people refer to the times we’re living in as intersting, and to a degree they are. However when it comes to this kind of stuff I regard it as disgusting times.
I’m doing ok though i suppose. Grateful for the fact that i have family and a few good friends. And to have found some good people online who know what the deal is here in the real world.
I hope that’s reasonably coherent, my articulation varies somewhat.
Cheers.
Mr No what the letter from the pimps say exactly?
As you say they cannot initiate sanctions doubt based on things you have the right to refuse so they must point some other failure from your part. Do they mention anything?
Keep strong and keep as posted.
Indeed. It’s a nightmare situation and these people prey on this.
However I maintain they cannot just whip out a ‘mandatory action’ and make you go and do something. According to the info on consent.me.uk and in the provider guidelines mandatory actions are supposed to be set out in the action plan, that’s the point of it. This, at the very least implies, that it has to be decided in a proper way – not just some angry provider moron whipping out a letter he’s hastily printed and threatening you with it. There are rules and procedures. That’s how organisations like the DWP operate and, to be fair to them, if you abide by them they are usually reasonable – not always (and those rules and procedures aren’t always reasonable either). That’#s the nature of bureacracy these days.
Oops, anger and stress got the better of me when i posted that. Sanction only verbally threatened at the moment. Though should a letter arrive soon it wouldn’t surprise me.
I phoned (as the paperwork states!) prior to my friday jobsearch session to say i wouldn’t be attending. She blathered on about ‘evidence’ to which i said that It wasn’t something i can evidence, such as a dentist appointment or similar. But that wasn’t the issue, she said about a sanction doubt due to failing to attend on the previous session, that i “Went home at lunchtime and didn’t return’ FFS! I didn’t take a break as suggested then it got to lunch so home i went. How is that failing to attend? And i specifically asked her previous to this how long was i expected to stay and were there any guidelines, to which she didn’t really have an answer.
So i didn’t go friday, so she may do a failed to attend for that, but I did ring in 24 hours prior. What about all that,’We’re all adults, common courtesy, if you cannot come in, just give us a ring’ Etc? Adviser didn’t say this, that was said at the induction. Or words to that effect anyway.
I said ‘Do what you feel you have to, see you next week’ and hung up on her.
Bollocks. I am preparing letters of complaint. Just to be prepared and respond quickly, should the need arise. And will edit as required if it happens and i know what reasons they give. Motivation and support? Demoralising and nasty!
.
But although a waste of time i am going to try to ‘negotiate my jobsearch down to once a week with the provider goons in the office. That’ll be a farce, hence letters i am putting together at the moment.
I will be complaining about the way they have treated me. Going to get the name of whoever is my pimps complaints manager next week. I’m sure my adviser will be all headmistress when i walk in next week. I may just listen and not really say much, only considered responses.
Just a thought.
Could you write and complain with your MP and maybe to some “right” legal group and then use whatever perfunctory response you get to strengthen your complaint to the pimp boss? Maybe it could help in bargaining a more reasonable jobsearch routine with them. Also what about posting a fake add (say on GumTree) and spin some yarn interfering as it will happen with your pimp timing?
Quick update.
I have decided to discontinue attending the mandated jobsearch sessions, it was unreasonable and directly in retaliation to my asserting my rights. Which were accepted! Hence the mandation being a form of harassment or similar, my ‘punishment’.
I actually couldn’t attend a couple of days due to a personal issue that I couldn’t ‘evidence’. Did it all by the book, contacted them etc. But the pimps wouldn’t have believed it. Didn’t want to even listen. However true and important it was.
Anyway my adviser had already mentioned a sanction, for some silly reason so I thought I may as well give her a real reason. I shall appeal any sanction.
I expect this will be raised at my signing day next week. Fair enough. I haven’t broken any laws, or done anything illegal. I am available for and seeking work etc. So, let’s just see what happens. Will keep you posted.
I think I have a reasonable case and it seems the only recourse to put across my side is via a sanction and therefore the DM. A complaint will be on it’s way to the pimps next week.
Just going on my intuition, my gut instinct. And all the research and info that hopefully I will be able to sufficiently articulate to these people. Fuck ’em. Play it by ear.
Take care people.
Got this link to share:
http://www.newint.org/blog/2012/04/30/government-back-down-on-workfare/
The authour has also written an amusing account of her “adventures at A4e”
Hi All,
It’s been a while since last posting anything mainly due to the fact of there not being very much to report as my appointments with the ‘private white collar criminal organisation’, ( also known as providers ) have been very infrequent and pretty much uneventful on the few occasions I have been ‘illegally mandated’ to attend. I do though have an appointment for tomorrow which is going to be a ‘review appointment’, basically I think it’s going to consist of them drawing up another ‘action plan’ for me to agree with by signing it afterwards. I refused to sign the first one they’d made last year and I’m intending on doing the same again tomorrow but I’m not sure whether it will be as easy to refuse it this time and I’m wondering whether anyone else on here has any similar experience or advice they could give me with regards to any negotiation tactics/template letter of refusal to sign it or suggestions of how to play it etc?
Could they ‘raise a doubt’ with JSP as to my eligibility for JSA on the grounds of me not taking part in ‘the work programme’ even though my real legal ‘Action Plan’ is contained in my ‘job seekers agreement for which I agreed to and signed for when I originally made my claim for JSA? Something has come to my attention recently which has given me reason to believe that once again, DWP are slowly and deliberately attempting to authenticate an illegal programme and change law as they see fit, my reasons are given below.
I have not actually had to see an advisor at my JSP office for some months now as I was given two or three months worth of ‘job activity log’ forms (which thankfully I scanned a copy of one of the first bunch of, of which can viewed along with the newer altered version by following the links to below) to complete and sign every fortnight and just hand them in at reception between the hours of 12 noon and 2pm, no problem there but now the latest batch I have noticed has a new addition at the top of the form requesting that I ‘Please bring my action plan that I have agreed to with my provider’ with me. As I have already stated, I do not actually have to see an advisor at JSP in person so I’m wondering if they are trying ‘once again’ at attempting to illegally herd, intimidate, threaten and most probably tricking people into signing something that has been slightly altered since their original issue?
As my review is tomorrow, this new addition has given me concern for how I stand in the ‘real legal sense’ rather than the misleading (that’s the kindest word I can think of to describe it) propaganda that they ‘really do arrogantly believe’ they have the right to update and implement where and when they deem fit to suit their agenda?
As always, any tips or advice from anybody would be very much appreciated and I will share my experiences and post any advice post my ‘Review Appointment’.
Cheers dudes X
The Original Copies:
The Front:
The Back:
The New Copies:
The Front:
The Back:
Hi SmithnBloggs
Well we seem to be having almost parallel experiences. I have just returned from a review appointment with my “so called ” advisors and am now tring to chill out after a fairly heated session.
I too have been on the coupon based signing on with JCP and thus far have encountered no problems. Like you I was given a revised coupon but mine does not have the demand to see the Action Plan on it.
Up till now I have been pretty well parked but I feel that the pressure is increasing on the pimps to get results. I have been mandated onto 2 “structured job search sessions” and one “Recognising Transferable Skills” course. Personally I regard all this as punitive in nature and said so in no uncertain terms.
I refused to sign the Action Plan and wasn’t threatened with any sanction doubt or the like.
I asked for (and received) a copy of said action plan – in previous appointments a copy wasn’t offered to me and I didn’t ask. The plan is marked “Customer would not sign”.
I also refused (yet again) to let them have a copy of my CV.
I think it highly unlikely that any of this will lead to a sanction doubt.
Incidentally I find the new addition to your coupon “‘Please bring my action plan that I have agreed to with my provider” a bit stupid. If yours is anything like my experience you just hand in the coupon and leave. There is no indication that the action plan is to be handed in as well so what is the point of them insisting that you have this document about your person?
Off now for a cold one to recover from being a4greeded.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9280038/Work-Programme-at-risk-as-too-few-jobs-in-UK.html
This article is a good laugh. £5 billion down the drain.
Make sure you complain, lots and lots to the Jobcentre (if you still have to see them to sign on) that the Provider is ignoring you, hardly ever seeing you, not providing any support or help etc etc :D Makes you look good to the DWP Advisor that your so upset that the contractor is not allowing you to engage properly ;), and piles more complaints and minus points in the Advisers group mind – Cant be a bad thing. Plus it protects you if the Advisor ever tries to pull a fast one – ask your Adviser at the JC everytime you sign on to make a note on system that its been X weeks since the Provider sent you an appointment.
Hey Smithnbloggs.
Action plan? I haven’t got one of those. And I wouldn’t sign one if (or when?) I am presented with one, It’s alleged they don’t even really need one to mandate you etc. It hasn’t stopped them doing what they like with me… Or has it? That’s another post.
Freedom of info requests can make good reading, the better presented ones seem to yield some good answers. Some of these suggest we ‘may’ not be obliged to sign much at all really. Of course nothing is ever pinned down to absolutes, but such is useful.
The providers can always try to negatively spin any non signings we indulge in though. Depends on the pimp maybe? They often do what they like anyway. Some are clever, some aren’t. And will give genuine cause for complaints a lot of the time. If you already refused such once before then i don’t think much would have really changed.
As for this coupon based system of signing on… Hmmm? Not sure I really fancy that, I think I’ll be opting for a regular signing experience should this arrive at my JC.
Take care mate. Hope it went well.
I signed on today and the advisor, for the first time i’ve ever seen them do, when looking at my jobsearch booklet, started typing stuff into the system. I’m not sure what it was, because there were a fair few entries (I record things like ’emailed job ref xyz’, which counts as application and writing to, which I’m sure they’d want separate entries for) and it didn’t look like she was typing them all in. A slight concern because emails that don’t get answered don’t make for solid proof – and of course employers can just say they never received anything, should it come down to it.
You say “employers can just say they never received anything, should it come down to it.”
I think I am right in saying that the JCP employee is subject to the same Data Protection rules as the pimps. In other words they can’t just contact the employer to whom you applied to check on you without first getting you to give your consent for them to do it. So don’t give that consent!
Hey GW
“I signed on today and the advisor, for the first time i’ve ever seen them do, when looking at my jobsearch booklet, started typing stuff into the system….”.
Exactly the same situation here. I thought ‘Ooh, that’s new’.
No sanction doubt though, which was good. Despite not attending my mandated activity.
And the sky is blue, for a change. Take care people.
And the whole thing has been such a roaring success that its to be expanded:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/26/work-free-programme-expanded-government
How about this after not hearing anything from intraining for the last 7 weeks I get a letter today (my postman delivers between 1 and 2 it came about 1.20) saying your next appointment is 29/05/12 at 12.30 phoned them to tell them i had just got the letter and was told they will get it sorted out hope it takes another 7 weeks pricks lol
Hey, at least you didn’t get an earful of abuse! Or an attitude of total disbelief.
Let’s hope they do leave you alone for another 7 weeks. That would be cool.
Good luck mate.
They have introduced coupons also at my JobCentrePlus for people on the WP. I suspect that all JCPs are in the process of eliminating the normal fortnight sign-ons with this sort of declaration and sample of jobsearch.
However it doesn’t appear that there is any uniformity with the coupons themselves (I uploaded the scanned images, see links at the bottom of the post). Probably each JCP makes its own following some kind of guidelines.
I wander if they will use them for random or suggested checks.
They only want six example of activities. As for my Pimp/Slavers I have not heard from them in months. I am a bit worried tht they may ask to have the coupon stamped by the pimps as the next step. This was the case of someone I know in Kent.
Lets keep in touch and compare notes.
Front
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxfVgCAXmNZmVEV2akNqWHVIb1E
Back
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BxfVgCAXmNZmOEtBcFRSbHhpdWM
Coupons? This is news to me. I still get the booklet to fill in. This is bizarre. What is the point of this?
Hi guys.
Well, as you may know I had been mandated to thrice weekly jobsearch. Went the first week, then after more silliness I stopped going. Got two further letters, still not going… Signed on OK, nothing mentioned.
And now this week, about a month or so later, I got one of those brown envelopes from the dwpee, The first page had the relevant bit. The rest on how to appeal etc etc.
Well, at the moment it seems that whatever doubt they put in has seemingly been deemed invalid. I only have speculations as to why, but no matter, for now at least! The first page had all one really needs to know…
A CHANGE IN YOUR JOBSEEKERS ALLOWANCE
We have looked at your claim again following a recent change.
From 14 April 2012 your JSA will be £71 a week.
This is because we recently told you that a decision would be made about a doubt:
– on whether you failed to take advantage of a place on an employment programme. We have now decided that this doubt no longer applies.
Hmmm? I thought this was rather interesting. And good stuff. I’m pleased anyway. They hadn’t ‘recently told me’ of any such doubt though. I was expecting such, but this letter was the first I knew. Not surprised though. Just standard letter stuff.
Some details would have been nice, but they don’t really do details do they. The ‘no longer applies’ is all one really needs to know.
Mind you, should another one be put in this might be how one is to be informed.
And then the how to appeal parts of the letter will become quite important! Ha!
What this means with attending I don’t know. I’m not going to just start attending all of a sudden.
Who knows what is going on? I will just continue to be non compliant, but I’m sure they’ll put another doubt in soon enough.
Anyway, just thought I’d update and convey the state of play.
Good for you Mr. No.
Keep us informed.
I am off now to deliver my “coupon” to the JC. Hopefully a 2 minute job.
I seem to spend more time completing Pimp’s “Application Trackers” and JCP coupons than actually doing something positive.
I used to keep details of all jobs applied for in an exercise book. Very simple and not restricted on size of boxes (as the forms are). It was always good enough for the advisors at JCP and then at PIMPO as well as being useful for me. Now I have to fill in two seperate forms – both poorly designed – and both requiring the same info. Pretty soon someone will realise that there is duplication of effort here – not just mine because that doesn’t cost money! But duplication of “checking on activity” at JCP and PIMPO. My guess is the task will be given to PIMPO resulting in more public sector savings and job losses at JCP.
Mr No I am glad that the first skirmishes have been decided in your favour.
It took some guts on your part to refuse outright, I would have tried and clogged their system, trying to beat them on endurance. But again I am a coward by nature…
As for the coupon recently introduced in my JSP, I went there early to observe the going on and managed to talk to the woman that seemed in charge of bringing the Coupon box and handling over the new coupons.
I actually printed one with the jobsearch (I used to do that at previous sign-ons, because is easier for me). Usually they seemed happy enough but this time I was rebuked and told to stick to the (poorly photocopied) form because she needed to file it and input the data on their system by hand!!
So it seems that this is an exercise in saving manpower, one person can service many more signing-ons and there is no need to pretend to talk to the claimants.
I have the impression that we are looking at a general prelude to cut-downs in the JSP centres. Still total silence from my pimps.
Hi Marcus
I agree with your comment about the coupons being a saving in manpower. Sooner or later someone will twig that 2 organisations are doing the same thing and even the cut down coupon version of JCP signing on will disappear.
Looks to me like JCP will become just a gateway to benefits and all jobsearch activity, checking of applications etc. etc. will be outsourced to PIMPO & Co. It’s just occurred to me that this may be used as an excuse for paying PIMPO & Co. more money.
Don’t moan about the total silence from your pimps.
Could be that pretty soon you will be looking back with fondness at the time when they were silent.
Alas! Very true.
Lets take a day at the time.
I don’t understand this coupon business. What exactly is this about? What are you supposed to use them for if you still have to sign on in person?
Hi GW (I enjoy you over at QP by the way).
The form (or coupon) is just a basic declaration that circumstances haven’t changed, that you have been doing jobsearches and a brief summary of them. It’s supposed to be signed on the day but since you don’t have to do this in front of anyone it could be signed at any time and just dated for the relevant day.
The advantage is that you don’t have a specific signing on time – just a window of between 9.30 and 3.30 when the form has to be handed in. You don’t see a specific advisor and just hand the form in at the reception desk where it gets a cursory inspection to make sure it has boxes filled and signed. Then it’s put in an in-tray and disappears into the bowels of the JCP – as far as I know never to be seen again. All over in 2 mins with none of the “how’s the jobsearch going?” nonsense.
This is the first i’ve heard of anything like that. Is it supposed to be rolled out across the country, or is it just for really oversubscribed jobcentres?
Hi GW,
I really don’t know!
All I know is that my local JCP are doing it as are some others. Now I see that it eases the burden on them (so they might want to do it given the choice) but it also makes them less relevant (they might want to think about how that impinges of their future).
My guess is that each local/regional JCP has been given the choice. Certainly it looks pretty amateurish – as the there have now been 2 versions of the form and, quite frankly both have been pretty amateurishly designed. – also neither version has an identifying code which I find a bit peculiar.
Backbench Labour tries to stimulate Ed B into action here:
http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/open-letter-to-ed-miliband.html?spref=tw
Meant Ed M!!!
Hi guys.
The farce continues…
Today I get a letter from the pimps instructing me to attend some workshop… And when is/was this workshop? Why it was today too. Great!
I opened the letter at about two in the afternoon when I got back from the shops, it hadn’t been delivered when I went out (our posties are a little erratic with delivery times, sometimes early, often late) and the start time for the workshop was half past one. Brilliant.
Not that I would have attended with it being on the same day, I may well have attended this one off workshop if it had been next week for example. Maybe!
It wasn’t actually at the provider premises. Just an address, no telephone number supplied except my advisers number. And i’ll be fucked if I was ringing that moron.
But again, can they really do this? Just a letter dumped on me ordering me to attend some poxy workshop without any discussion or agreement. Are they dealing with me by post exclusively? Second class mail too. Of course! Posted before the bank holiday.
So, they probably think that this is good for another sanction doubt. Bring it on.
Keep the envelop if it has a postmark in case you need to prove their incompetence. Can’t really blame the post as these people know full well what our post service is like.
Hi GW.
Yeah, I will keep the envelope.
Realistically I cannot be sanctioned for this, they can put in a doubt though and knowing what they’re like they probably will.
I have been looking into my position on this particular issue and it appears that it will be (hopefully) quite straightforward to explain my side and no sanction should be applied.
The evil organisations/cunts who work for these fucking “providers”/collaborators in the DWP are the very same people who in Nazi Germany sorted and selected victims to be either worked to death or immediately transported to the gas chambers. These cunts should be dragged from their cosy offices/taxpayer funded mansions kicking and screaming. They are without conscience and beyond contempt. It is high time we had a Nuremberg trial for these cunts – the sooner they are swinging at the end of a hangman’s noose the better.
:-)
If it walks like a Neo-Nazi, quacks like a Neo-Nazi, looks like a Neo-Nazi it must be a Neo-Nazi.
Just finished talking to a journo from the ft who wanted/wants inside info on WP experience. Much of my input was about my NLP “course” and general background to the modus operandi of A4greed.
She may welcome more input. If anyone wants to contribute I would suggest an initial e-mail rather than a phone call out of the blue.
If anyone has examples of sanction doubts being raised for stupid things I’m sure she would be interested.
Sarah O’Connor
Economics Reporter
020 7873 3597
07984 203876
http://www.ft.com
e-mail:sarah.o’connor@ft.com,
I’ll be back!
Very good Mr. No – that never occurred to me.
I’ll have to try contacting her about A4e & their subcontractor that I’m on, refusing to acknowledge my withdrawal of consent letter. Even threatening me verbally with sanction if I continued to request my withdrawal. When I made a complaint to the ICO, the ICO originally chose to defer opinion to that of the DWP. And when I made a further complaint about that, I still haven’t been answered.
When I started the Work Programme with A4E they tried to get me to sign the data protection waiver which I did not, because I always read everything, and it clearly said it was optional.
There was another form though which asked loads of questions including very personal details such as medical conditions etc. and which I had to sign (there being no indication of it being optional). Is this the form you’re trying to withdraw consent for?
Yeah, it was the usual story of threats to sign originally at my induction. Anyway, I’ve been trying to get them to acknowledge my withdrawal of consent for the DWP, and A4e contacting a future employer for evidence so they can claim a payment. And I’m also withdrawing consent for A4e to share my info with third parties.
I’m well and truly parked at the moment. Then the other week, my advisor transferred me to another office. When I went to my appointment the other day at the new office, turns out they’ve managed to lose me. And I’ll be damned, if I’ll be the one chasing them to give me a future appointment.
Hey Dinkleberry.
May your parked status remain such for a good while. I got to nearly 6 months before I got ‘unparked’, so to speak.
Contact them? As if!
Good luck mate.
Oh, forgot to ask, you’ve probably heard of this website: http://www.refusewp.com/
It seems to have been taken down, does anyone know why?
…. along with workprogramme.org.uk and unlawfulsanctions.org.uk!
I was going to ask exactly the same question myself as I was unaware that it had been until a couple of people who I’d given the email address to for the workprogramme.org.uk site got intouch to say they were just being directed to a blank white screen with ‘Website Disabled’ on it. I thought it may have just been a case of the server being down temporarily but apparently it has been down for a couple of weeks now so yeah, if anyone has any info on what may be the cause or reason, please let us know.
I think we would all agree that “refuse the work programme” was a resounding failure. A one-way ticket to sanctionville.
I came into this late so I was already on the Work Programme.
I don’t believe there is any way to refuse the Work Programme but you can make it difficult for the providers by not signing anything you don’t legally have to, which is pretty much everything they want you to sign.
As long as you make it clear that you are not refusing to work with the provider (to avoid sanction doubts) there’s not much they can do and it makes them less interested in you because it’s harder for them to claim an outcome.
This is the best strategy; not all that sending in letters “refusing” to attend appointments etc until iain duncan smith resigns lo At times it felt more of a political “campaign”. Anyway, refusewp changed it’s tune it became apparent that jobseekers were being sanctioned left, right and centre. There is no point in being a martyr for some political cause.
refusewp was taken down by the owner who now contributes on Ipswich Unemployed Action
http://intensiveactivity.wordpress.com/
He gave lots of notice.
Don’t know about the other sites.
Hi guys.
Here we go again. I haven’t really much of a clue what is the right thing to do anymore.
But I’ll continue to ramble on…
As you can read above I got one of those large brown envelopes recently stating that there was a doubt but it had been decided it ‘no longer applies’. Ok, that’s fine I thought. I think that they had put a doubt in, probably incorrectly. So that’s was one attempt.
Now, just the other day I received a letter from a local DM office, white envelope, JC+ letterhead.
Remember apart from attending the first 2 days of compulsory jobsearch I haven’t been back there.
So this letter is asking me for my ‘good reason’ for not attending ‘an intensive jobsearch’ on the ** of April.
It is worded in a way that suggests the doubt is simply based on not attending that one day, because of the use of the word ‘an’.
No mention of the 3 times a week! I feel like simply replying concisely to what they have presented. I did attend the first 2 days, therefore I was in attendance on that specific first day,
I have typed up a response where I simply state that I was in fact in attendance on the date therefore that negates any good reason having to be given,
I also typed one up that carries on and tells them exactly what went on and why my mandaton was unreasonable… But I’m thinking I should try the ‘I attended on that day’ for this particular response and save the crusading tirade and full details if that fails to nullify the doubt and I need to appeal.
A case of saying just enough for now versus saying a little too much, if you know what i mean?
Also, it’s probably the right time now to send the detailed and formal complaint letter to pimp.
Hope that’s reasonably clear. Got to get this in the post on Monday! Strict time limits!
Fun. fun. fun.
Just keep your response short and sweet, Dr No, no need to ramble on, and just stick to presenting the facts i.e. you DID attend on xx April (the specific day mentioned?) – that’s the important bit. “An intensive jobsearch” could mean just about anything, well it doesn’t mean anything really.
Watch out though, if you were mandated to attend on 3 days, but only attended on the first two days, don’t give any inkling on any communication you send to the DM that the poverty pimp is referring to one out of three possible days. i.e a letter from the pimp. It used to be the case that your response to the “decision maker” was forwarded to the pimp to give them a chance to respond to your response (but attachments like a letter may or not have been forwarded). It being the wrong day referred to shouldn’t affect the “decision maker’s decision anyway – it is not their job to correct the pimps’s mistake) to In other words, you don’t want the pimp to realise their mistake and have another bite at the cherry i.e raise another doubt with the correct date this time. Good luck!
Just to be clear, if you did attend on the specific day mentioned it would be best just to inform the “decision maker” that you did attend on THAT particular day with 100% certainty. And just leave it at that. How can anyone prove if they attended or not anyway? You can’t, can you! All that could happen is the “decision maker” queries it with the pimp. It would invalidate that specific doubt anyway. The only thing is the pimp could possibly correct their mistake and raise another doubt.
Mr No, sorry :-) too many Bond films :-)
‘That’s a Smith and Wesson, and you’ve had your six.’
;-P
Hello DM, And thanks,
I appreciate your words very much. And as such, your response confirms to me that being short and sweet and concise is the best option for this particular situation.
Very kind of you to take the time. Best regards, whoever you are.
Just a link on the MWP “effectiveness” :
http://www.cesi.org.uk/social-inclusion-news/2012/jun/mandatory-work-activity-early-evaluation-shows-no-positive-impact-emp
Mr. No.
Keep it short and sweet.
Were you “mandated” (horrible word!) in writing? Remember to be sanctionable it has to be in writing. If so did the letter specify all 3 days?
The letter mandating you should contain the required wording: “If you do not undertake the activities required in this notification your benefit could be affected”.
Also, for the letter to have been received in good time, the DWP recommend providers send it a full week before the appointment.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wp-pg-chapter-3a.pdf (updated 18 May 2012).
Or did the pimp just say: “Mr No, I expect to see you in here on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of next week for an intensive job search”? That statement wouldn’t count for a row of beans.
My experiences have mainly been documented here, but to recap…
I was ‘mandated’ in writing. Despite it being questionable how they went about it. It may be deemed ultimately as unreasonable in my circumstances, but that is currently speculation. They were most definitely unreasonable in their actions!
I was mandated to jobsearch at the premises 3 times week until further notice! I attended the first 2 days. That was enough. One of which is the specific day mentioned in this current doubt.
I was there so I will simply respond that I attended on that day and therefore this means there is no need for good reason to be given at all. I was there!
With any further doubts for other missed sessions I will not be able to genuinely say I attended.
But I have a defence for when/if it gets to that stage. Some rational ideas at least.
Primarily because of the manner in which I was served the mandation in writing and added to that it was unreasonable. No discussion alllowed. Not allowed to question or ignored whilst I am trying to. And the disgusting attitude and the attempted intimidation etc. And the lies and bullshit. I behaved well despite this, a little angry, but I acted in no way like they might suggest. Might suggest?
I shouldn’t even be being sanctioned for specific dates of non attendance, it should be on the basis that i am failing to comply with the ongoing requirement to attend. That could in itself be a valid point to consider.
This specifically worded doubt might be easy to deal with, but it doesn’t facilitate me being validly able to defend the whole issue of the until further notice job search being foisted upon me in the first place.
i think it’s now time for a formal complaint to pimp outlining the complete scenario, hopefully get this job search dropped and a new adviser at least. At least that’s the theory. Get this in before the sanctions start flowing thick and fast.
Though I expect they all are excellent purveyors of bullshit throughout the company. I have little faith in the impartiality of their in house complaints procedure. I have a sterling complaint letter drafted, a little tweak due to these further developments and it’ll be good to go. That should be mildly interesting with regard to what response it garners.
Anyway, my short and concise response to this current doubt will be in the post next week.
Can I send their prepaid envelope by recorded signed for? Don’t see why not? Hmmm?
Cheers.
Dr No, this first doubt is dead in the water, it’s nothing to worry about. As you say, if the pimp raises another doubt specifying a date you weren’t actually there, you would be technically lying through your teeth if you stated the contrary (but thats the welfare-to-work/fare/house industry for you :-)) Not that I am advising anything, but if I was in the same circumstances and they tried that on with me, I would state with a straight face that I did attend the office for a job search. Why “confess” and be automatically sanctioned – there is nothing to lose and everything to gain. And even if you were pinned down with incontrovertible proof that you didn’t (unlikely) well, you you got mixed up with the dates – a “misunderstanding” in jobcentre speak; so what, *shrugs shoulders*, it’s not a criminal investigation, Dr No – you not going to go to jail. Why behave like a George Washington, always-tells-the-truth small child character when you are dealing with the most ruthless, cut-throat cunts imaginable who DO lie through their teeth even if it means their victims land in the gutter. Time to get with the programme and play them at their own game.
Come to think of it, it does sound a bit odd that they are raising a doubt for a date you were actually in attendance – incompetence or something more sinister?
And another thing, you do want to do get these doubts snuffed out before they take hold and sanctions start flying at you from all over the place. There are a lot of other accounts published by victims where this has happened to them. Almost bear in mind at all times that you are dealing with the most ruthless, evil cunts imaginable. The welfare-to-work/fare/house industry is scum!
And one other thing, if you haven’t already, it might be worth investing in a covert recording device. If push come to shove :-)
You make good points, However I am most certainly ‘with the programme’ And intend to take things all the way. I hate these nasty bastards and will not comply with the stupid bollocks my bigoted, ignorant, bitchy (racist?) adviser deems she has the power to order me to do. Her little bit of power has obviously gone to her head.
Not worried about this doubt, but seeing as I am meant to have been attending 3 times a week for the past several weeks and have only been twice. Lying will be a fools errand.
What has to be done is to get the pimp to drop this job search requirement altogether.
If I get sanctioned for further transgressions I will appeal. And when i get going i do not stop until results are achieved. And as they are in the wrong and i am in the right then this is what drives me to rebel to the fullest capacity of my being.
I know they are cunts, the whole thing is a dirty scam. I will not stand for it. Let them sanction, they wont make a penny from me. And I will not comply.
As it stands I may be able to fend them off for a while, but I am expecting and prepared for when they get me up to a 6 month sanction.
Recording device? I have several! And the audio is quite clear. I cannot wait for them to start lying. And then the recordings will be mentioned. They unparked me, treated me like dirt and I have it recorded in all it’s bitchy glory.
And I can afford to take a sanction hit, fortunately. I will eat and have a roof over my head. So they do not have the advantage of scare tactics like they do over many claimants. I have no work on the side, so nowt to fear there either.
I have no problem with a claimant earning a few quid to survive. If it’s genuine need and not greed.
I do not enjoy this, i would much rather find a suitable job, but there isn’t much out there. So, what do i do? I claim JSA, I look for work. So fuck these nasty psychopathic profit making scam running cunts. They think they are so smart, they’re spiteful and dishonest, but they aren’t that clever.
And I am used to dealing with legal stuff. And I write pretty good letters. And i never back down when I have done no wrong. As you say, I’m not going to jail. I wont suffer too much. And I am tired of worrying so fuck ’em. bring it on.
I can shout louder than them, I have the time. They are paid by the hour, I will not shut up.
Are you DM? Just changing your blog ‘name’? Not that it matters, but it’s nice to have some continuity. Again, thanks for your words, whoever you are. Appreciated.
How exactly do they record your attendance? Do they just tick you off on a list? I’ve only attended once so far and I can’t remember. I know I didn’t sign anything.
Watch out though. Do you have to sign into reception when you visit them? If so all they’d have to do is pull up the records and could then quite justifiably sanction you if you hadn’t signed in on the days in question.
There is no Law that anyone has to sign-in at reception. Anyway, it’s not a good practice to give these cunts a sample signature. “Fire-log” signatures have been known to be traced for fraudulent purposes – “X” marks the spot :-) It is also part of training victims into signing anything, just anything without even reading it (or understanding it). You don’t have to sign any of their bullshit forms. Fuckem!
Also, the least said the better in these places, don’t give these bastards any more info than the DWP has already given them, don’t deny or confirm anything the DWP have told them, that way they can’t use it against you/for their benefit – always keep it schtum!
btw, they have a full “dump” of the DWP database on their system, even the “conversions” file ffs.
It’s a health and safety requirement to get your name (if not your signature) so that if there’s a fire they know you’re there and can check that you got out. They also need it so that their insurance covers them.
So you aren’t legally obliged to sign in at reception but if you don’t they’d be well within their rights to refuse you entry and I think you’d find it hard to use that as an excuse for non attendance.
So, in a sense, printing your name (but not necessarily signing) is mandatory.
But you don’t have to sign the “fire-log” at the jobcentre, even the supermarket or library. Why is it only providers who have “fire-log”. As if they give a stuff you get out of their burning building in time.
That’s a good point and I don’t know the answer.
At my provider (A4E) they share the building with LearnDirect so that probably complicates matters.
But isn’t it a good thing to sign, or at the very least print, your name? That way they can’t very well claim that you didn’t attend on that day – well, they can, but this ‘evidence’ would clearly count in your favour.
In general I’m all for making life as difficult as possible for the provider and I’m currently ‘debating’ with mine which documents I am or am not mandated to sign, the outcome of which will, I’m sure, be that I sign none of them!
Only thing I can think of is it saves the provider on the cost of a fire extinguisher.
“conversations” file i.e “chats” you have has back at the jobcentre, stuff noted by signing-on staff etc.
And anything you say goes back to the jobcentre, and that includes “CVs”
Hmmm? I doubt most of what was said at my appointment will get back to the jobcentre. A bunch of lies might though! Give ’em enough rope.
I think you give too much credit to the pimp/slavers.
They are all too frequently appallingly inept (I often quote how in my local JCP -a step above the pimps- a friend of mine had to debate with the “advisor” that Wales was not abroad…).
The point is to try to find out what constitute proof for raised doubts to be accepted.
The inkling about the fire registry could be valid (I believe it is kept for all places where people can resides for a certain times and it should be in some Health and Safety regulations) or just the “testimony” of the provider could represent such proof.
I do not know and exchanging info it is all we can do at this junction.
Yeah I agree, the pimps are indeed nasty and deliberate in their hassling and bullying, but ultimately they can be rather sloppy.
I don’t give them much credit myself, but they are mostly nasty and vindictive and it would be a mistake for us to underestimate all of them.
With my current doubt the register would actually prove I was there. But not for any further doubts. That’s where I will have to challenge the nature of the initial mandation.
I don’t sign I just put the time and my name in capitals. Mind you, they would be foolish to regularly forge signatures, so i don’t really worry about that happening.
At various my “signature” besides my printed name in the A4greed fire register reads “R”, “X”, “innittogether”.
Am thinking of:
“Don’t sign”
“Enemma Upchucker”
“WPvictim”
After all it’s only me that can define what is my “signature”
I am open to new suggestions.
You are right; a person’s signature is their individual mark and doesn’t necessarily have to be legible so you could, enough space permitting put whatever you want really, so anyway just off the top of my head, how about:
No jobs no rights no way.
Jack Meoff.
Hugh Jarsse.
Tory Nonce sense.
Truth is bullet-proof.
Innocent till proven unemployed.
Fascists with dirty white collars.
Izzit cozzaz no job.
Crime pays wenyarra provider.
Don’t ask for justice as a refusal often re-offends.
My office is right outside your front door.
I will deal with you in my office.
Hitler woz ere 2011
Hitler 2011-2015
R.I.P. (Rot In Purgatory).
Your job is to lose it.
Its all gone quiet over there!
You’re Mothers eyes are elderberries.
And your Father smells of piss.
The freedom to think.
I bet I can do your job for less.
The list can go on and on which is the reason I find it so much fun, especially when that fun is poked at …erm well, that list also goes on and on.
Any mark, so long as it is not your “official” jobcentre signature. Or better still, just spray-paint something in their fucking book :-)
When asked to fill in a name on a voucher or anything free like that. I use these names.
Ben Detoy
Chris P. Duck
Dan Gling
Gordon Nomes
Ho Lin Whan
Pete Zahutt
Rowan Bote
Dan D. Lyons
Drew Peacock
Willie Stroker
Jock Strap
Mike Hunt
Wayne King
Wayne Kerr
Ivor Wharmpess
Amaf Maheed
Mahat Macoat
What if you just sign/mark the register and walk out? But still, maybe it is best to leave some sort of mark on it if indeed the “fire register” is the final arbiter of attendance disputes. Part of the rationale is probably to loosen up their victims to get them into the habit of signing anything that is put in front of them. Some people would even sign their own Death Warrant!
My short response was sent off today.
And you’ll never guess what… Another couple of doubts were delivered today! One of which was a duplicate of the one I responded to today! Doh!
Different DM person name at the bottom of the letters.
The other one is for a day that I didn’t attend. Hmmm? I wonder what happens when you ignore a sanction doubt letter. Mind you I should by rights have had about 15 doubts raised really, I mean, I haven’t been attending, they’re missing a trick there, Lol.
A fully detailed and stern letter will be on the way to pimp complaints dept this week! For all the good that’ll do. Blooming ‘eck!
Mr No, aren’t you the dude who is always sat in the provider’s office from 9-5 every day doing an “intensive jobsearch”? :-) I see you like every day without fail :-) Wow, what dedication :-) You really need to chill out, man all this “intensive jobsearching” can’t be doing you any good :-) Do you “come in” at the weekends too? :-)
Lol. No, that’s not me. I look for work only every other day. At home on my own computer,
I mean, what is an unemployed person doing with their own computer and affording internet access anyway! That is rather suspicious is it not?
The dude you refer to also looks on bank holidays and christmas day too. Even hides in the toilets until the pimps have gone home so one can do more overnight and this also ensures that one is there on time the next morning. In fact that dude has even requested to the government that time itself is altered, so even more job search can be crammed into the week. Doesn’t even want fares. Food is also just an inconvenience, That one will not rest until the dude can find a job and let the pimps take the credit. Very dedicated.
It does raise a red flag if you say you own your own computer or have internet access at home, if they ever go round asking “who has a computer and internet access at home” you will be met with a chorus of “No” – that’s why we all use the “library” :-)
Even things like having “expensive” hobbies!
I said I have a computer at home, that’s how I managed to get out of having to attend to do structured (try not to laugh!) job searches at the provider premises.
Were you making a serious point about saying you don’t have a computer at home? In what way does it help?
That worked for me too – but only for a while.
I am now “mandated” to attend “structured” jobsearches. What a waste of time! Apart from 3/4 hour travel each way the search takes longer because their PCs don’t “remember” my site user names and passwords and there’s always distractions. I estimate that attnding a “structured” jobsearch is about a quarter as productive as doing it from home.
For “structured” read “supervised”. The assembled multitude are continually shoulder surfed by the duty prison warder which at the very least is off putting and demeaning – I am not a child so why treat me like one?
Hey Gissa.
3-4 hours each way? Teamed with your own internet access? (yeah, i know, deemed irrelevant, they cannot watch over you at home)
But this should at least be considered ‘unreasonable in your circumstances’. The travel time still should be less than 1.5 hours, if that applies to a job it should really apply to to mandatory activity attendance, some pimps even stipulate that your appointments should be at a location with minimal travel times involved. Another little complaint for the pot perhaps?
How often are you having to attend these job searches at the pimp?
Sorry mislead you there! the 3/4 was meant to be threequarters not 3 to 4!
So far I was mandated to just 2 sessions a week apart – and then a 3 week break till my next advisor appointment – so not too much of an imposition.
At first session the jailer announced that we were “expected” to come in at least once a week (book you own session). I have ignored this since as it’s not in writing it isn’t mandatory. I anticipate an interesting discussion the next time I see advisor
Following a complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority I have been informed that A4greed’s claim ““We are currently supporting one person into work every seven minutes.” no longer appears on their website. Therefore no further action on that point .
My other complaint still being considered.
Nice. As Tesco says…”every little helps”.
Meanwhile I have reported Enemma Harrison as a benefit cheat on the DWP website:
http://campaigns.dwp.gov.uk/campaigns/benefit-thieves/benefit-theft.asp
Because they say they want to hear about benefit theft.
I urge others to do the same.
LOL!
Hey Gissa, that is something I will take pleasure in doing. I suppose while I’m there I must remember to report the C.E.O. of…. sorry! I mean report the ringleader of the serious organised crime syndicate still operating in my neighbourhood too.
What a mint idea dude. Fuckin brilliant :))
Reported!
Absolutely disgusting, have also reported this scurrilous woman!
Hello.
Well, more sanction doubt rebuttals sent off by recorded signed for in plenty of time to arrive.
I say rebuttals plural because I responded to sanction doubt 2 recently, but it got there on the day it was meant to arrive before. If that’s clear?
If you have seen the letters they all state this. Although it initially arrived on a date that meant I had less than the 5 working days to respond.
But last week I got two more through the door and one of them was a duplicate of the one I just responded to late. So I responded again to sanction 2 stating the same reasons and that it was late etc.
Sanction 1 was the one which I got notification that a doubt had been raised, but was deemed not to apply. You know really vague, but it no longer applies.
Stop press… As I have been typing this the postman has been and this is quite funny really, Another brown envelope, another sanction doubt! And guess what? It’s a third letter regarding sanction 2. Triplicate! I think this one will be ignored otherwise that’ll be 3 times i have responded to the same doubt. Completely bonkers.
So, sanction 1 didn’t get as far as a ‘good reason’ response letter. ‘No longer applies’.
Sanction 2 I responded to, then I got a duplicate and also responded to that. And now a third letter for sanction 2 has just arrived as I started typing this post. I don’t think I will respond a third time for sanction 2.
The thing is I was in attendance and told them so. Therefore no good cause required. They cannot realistically apply a sanction for sanction doubt 2.
And this brings me on to sanction 3, which was for a day a shortly after I stopped attending so they have me for that, possibly? Though I wasn’t notified as the doubt claims I was.
My response to this ran to 2 pages of A4 and tells them how the whole thing was a load of bollocks in the first place. In a wordy diplomatic way, but with a dash of vitriol, but remaining largely accurate. That might be interesting. I contend that it was all done incorrectly and unreasonable and unprofessionally etc. I will let you know my progress and how they respond.
I cannot believe that third letter for sanction 2 coming just now.
Just another update. Hope that’s reasonably clear, I want to be as accurate as I can with regard to my dealings. After all, this is a 2 year stint for us all. Work doesn’t set you free!
I’m a little stressed, that can sometimes affect the coherence a little sometimes.
Stay strong people.
Notwithstanding they have already sent the same doubt twice, it is very possible they will apply a sanction for sanction 2 if you don’t respond (assuming a response is required to “allow” (DWP speak for dismiss it) it. Be careful!
Thanks, I intend to be careful.
Although It’s really beyond that now, just going with it. Seat of the pants non compliance.
So, if we are understanding each other correctly, I assume you realise that I have responded to the two almost identical doubt letters for Sanction 2. The outcome pending. And now this morning I receive a third letter regarding sanction 2.
You are saying that perhaps i should also, for a third time, respond to this doubt too. 3 doubts for the same offence? Seems a bit odd. Lol.
My first impulse was to raise my eyes and just think bollocks to it, they’ve had 2 responses, but I guess it might be prudent to just fill it in again and maybe request that three is enough now!
Actually, this third one is more or less the same but now it mentions entitlement whereas the previous two didn’t, but it is quite subtle and reads very similarly to the previous 2.
If this is attempting to upgrade to an ‘entitlement’ doubt in a sneaky way then this could be cause for concern and complaint. Is it proper procedure for example? Being a formal document that word is quite significant from a legal perspective, the use of language.
Might type up the exact wording of how they have worded the relevant parts later.
Will have to proceed carefully, give it some thought. First order of business is to get a formal complaint to the bigger fish at the pimp operation.
Cant beat the system, go with the flow.
Cheers, Sanction Buster.
Hi Mr. No,
No advice – just a quick message of support.
Stay strong.
Cheers Gissa. Appreciated.
It’s confusing, Mr No. I was assuming that you had received two identical worded exactly the same i.e. “Why did you not attend your jobsearch?” A: “I did not attend my jobsearch because the building was set on fire during a staff meeting, all the staff were burned to death. Luckily no “customers” were on the premises at the time. On arrival the fire brigade would not allow me entry because the “fire register” had also been burned to a cinder”. Decision maker “allows” the doubt (twice).
I am not sure if the third letter is a follow on i.e “why did you no attempt to effect entry by scaling the rear of the building?” If the doubt has already being dismissed twice it would be easy enough to have it dismissed for a third time for the exact same reason rather then lie in the decision maker’s in-tray waiting to be rubber-stamped as a sanction because you have failed to show “good cause”. Just do whatever you believe will best protect your benefit!
“On arrival the fire brigade would not allow me entry because the “fire register” had also been burned to a cinder”” – good point! What is the point of a “fire register” if it is not kept in a fire-proof safe?
If it’s any consolation Mr. No.
Just think how much it’s costing them at the other end!
still not been to my provider and been on it from the start sends me letters for a 121 but just bin them and not had my money stopped yet either.
said had a job n signed of and put in a rapid reclaim weeks later and im of the grid as im on the providers system so get fishing letters as to why i don’t show and guess they cant sanction me cos i not signed there contract haha
dont think they talk to the jcp either as they can only refer me every 2 years so it not jcp getting them to send the letters as there just the standard ones they send=free bog roll.
i think they want my contract of employment so they can get there cash from the gov as the last thing i said was had a job and never going to sign there paper work n went home that was 7 months ago and now get random letters to show up but dont bother and just sign as normal every 2 weeks.
so if they think im working but i am signing on should i give them the copy of my contract cos if they clam the money and im on benefit there fucked big time.
got um buy the balls this time round the wankers cant tell me its a new system when i been on it over 10 years im living proof its all a waste of time and money.
same shit diff shovel and sign post but still shit none the less.
i think they should be the ones doing the job search for ppl and finding jobs but no you have to find ur own job then they get paid thousands for doing fuck all bar processing the paperwork and payment.
and at the end of the day why should i pay tax from a job so these ass holes get there 20k a year for doing what????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
well here is what i done over the years that made them park me when on this shit.
sign off for a day/week and put in rapid reclaim
change job centrer puts u back to the start
sign off for 12 weeks 3 mouths back to start
never sign anything at provider but happy to attend
jcp broke the dpa 1998 sending my info to 3rd party yes that is the provider lol
don’t sign the fire book ever
never give them ur cv or email or phone number letters only.
if they ask u to job search ask them to print out envelopes with every addr on company’s house to send ur cv with stamps paid for.
happy to use pc but will format the drive after using it dpa1998 they have no right to my personnel information without my permission hdd inc.
can use my own laptop at provider as well do job search and have net at home.
will never give them a job outcome as there scum of the earth.
I think they are trying to stop things like that. I seem to recall reading about yet another Grayling Initiative designed to shut down these ‘loopholes’. I also heard, months ago, at the jc they had done away with rapid reclaims. Dunno if that’s true.
I might be in line for a sanction soon, though i fucking hope not. My GP wrote to the JC to ask how they were supporting me. This seems to have triggered them asking the WP what they were doing who in turn, despite parking me and making no effort to contact me (which is no bad thing), seemed to have the nerve to accuse me of not engaging with the process. Of course non-engagement (and you can guess who’s side they’ll take in a dispute) is enough to raise a doubt.
If this happens my GP will fucking well know about it, I can tell you.
Morning.
I mentioned that I got a third letter for sanction doubt 2. And that this third letter for the same issue now has typed upon it the word entitlement. The first two letters did not.
The first letter for sanction 3 did though. My responses have been sent for both of these doubts and I await a response. Although when responding to sanction 3 I didn’t even really notice the addition of the word entitlement. Only when I read my copy again did I see it,
Anyhow, my response was quite robust and correct in all it’s content regardless.
Although it may seem like an innocent addition of one word in the same standard sentence it might not be.
In an ideal scenario they should really outline clearly that is is not just a fixed sanction issue anymore and is now an entitlement doubt, straight to 6 month sanction if found guilty.
Or that isn’t the case. And maybe i am wrong and it has not been escalated to an entitlement doubt. And by whom? And how is that justified? There’s a question!
Maybe i should specifically ask, or not? Or just see what happens. After all, many people who aren’t knowledgeable wouldn’t necessarily have a clue or notice such things. So they think they’re possibly getting a two week sanction and be pretty fucking stressed when it’s announced. Maybe that’s the idea? Up the ante.
So am I facing an entitlement doubt? Maybe? Gosh, better hope there’s at least 2 jobs to apply for next week. Suitable or not. Ahem! ‘There’s not much really out there’ doesn’t quite get through to these people.
The difference is in the first sentence of the letter, I guess it’s standard stuff and anyone reading who has been unlucky enough to have been sent one will be familiar with it.
“A doubt has arisen on your jobseekers allowance because it appears that you failed to undertake the activity that (PROVIDER NAME) told you to do”.
And then…
“A doubt has arisen on your entitlement to Jobseekers Allowance because it appears that you failed to undertake the activity that (PROVIDER NAME) told you to do”.
As well as the obvious difference I have included another subtle difference that I only noticed as I was typing it up!
Not that it makes a jot of difference in dealing with all this crap. Whatever the case.
Please excuse me if I ramble on a bit and am not too clear at times. Just documenting my story, Glad that there is provision to correspond.
Cheers all.
All this bullshit just to get back a few quid each week, no matter the cost in fucking up people’s lives. It beggars belief in any reasonable society.
If indeed we lived in such a thing.
well if there going to sanction you anyway do it ur self that way u only lose a few days money and fucks them right off.
just sign off the day u go to provider or b4 u go say u got a job and they not getting shit from you and u wont be going any more and will not give them the employers details ect n walk out saying sanction me bitch see what happens, they cant do anything as not on benefit, should of seen the look on her face when i done it lmfao. still wanted me to go mind to chat n cups of tea errr fuckoff
if u can hold out 2-4 weeks then put in a rapid reclaim the jcp just thinks i keep going every week and the provider thinks im working seems the only time they speak to each other when first sent down there when mandated too.
first letter i ever had was from head office, the rest are from the local office as they wanted to give my info over the phone for induction which i said no had a 121 with some stupid cow on the second appointment cos they lost me the first time for 1.5hrs and was closing hahahahahahahahahah all i did is mark the book and sat there and said nothing and got lost?
never been back to this day so far i been parked b4 but this is a joke wonder what the jcp thinks when they find out they lost me for a year this time.
Hi All – interesting article at the FT. Behind a paywall but if can be accessed without cost my agreeing to logon (or summmat like that!). Opportunity for comment.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1fc548ce-ba39-11e1-aa8d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1yoFQaQT6
That was me that was!
Just use your existing stock-broking account ffs!
Why did I not think of that?
Can be accessed by googling:
Agencies aim to improve focus of jobless
By Sarah O’Connor
Quote:
“She said customers’ attendance on specialist courses were “part of a mutually agreed plan of activities” and sanctions for non-attendance, such as the withdrawal of benefits, were only applied in exceptional circumstances.”
Took me nearly ten minutes to stop laughing!
Mind you, it’s a good quote to throw at your A4E supervisor next time they try to force you into a “mutually agreed plan of activities”.
Hi guys.
Just a little update.
My response to the doubt notifications were received on time this week. Recorded signed for! So that’s good. Obviously a little soon for any response regarding the outcome,
Whether that be another official brown envelope or one is to be informed when one next attends to sign. Or both? One will have to wait and see.
My response to sanction doubt 3 was rather long and I probably went on a bit too much, Maybe?I did highlight some of the bullshit that surrounded my appointment which led to the jobsearch requirement. And put a few choice quotes from my interaction with my adviser.
Anyway, I don’t know if this has any bearing on a letter I just received from the pimps.
Which in all it’s bad spelling and questionable grammar simply is to inform me that my adviser “…will be out of the business until further notice. An appointment will be given to you upon her return”.
Now this is probably completely incidental, maybe she is on holiday or something?
I doubt that the DM has acted on anything with regard to my ‘good cause’ letter. If they even do such things. And not that quickly. It cannot be due to my doubt. I wonder if the DM sends them a copy of the my doubt response letter. Mind you, they would probably be quite unflustered and simply deride me some more.
But I do wonder why they felt the need to send me a short letter telling me this. And anyway, after the pimp gets my complaint letter any appointment wont be with that bigoted, bitchy individual. Well, hopefully.
Actually it’s good they have informed me she’s not around. She cannot be sending me more doubts. And by the time she is back the pimp will have had my complaint letter and hopefully will be dealing with it. I am of course requesting an alternate adviser. But have said how I trust none of them at this branch. Let’s hope my adviser is having a long holiday! Maybe she has left? Who knows?
Que sera sera, whatever will be will be.
Maybe up the duff? or would anyone be that brave???
“I wonder if the DM sends them a copy of the my doubt response letter. ” – They did previous to the “work programme”, not sure if it is still the case but the probably still do.
Well if they still do that then I wonder who they send it to? My branch? The scumbags might be rather annoyed, it was quite damning.
It doesn’t really matter either way because the complaint letter to the pimps is even more detailed! For all the good that’ll do.
But I thought I would give the DM some of the dirt as it is pertinent to my good cause.
Maybe even said some stuff I shouldn’t have, But every word was true and I stand by it all. Even the bits that were opinion, as we are often told we are all so entitled to. Usually with a condescending tone
And I am really past caring what they think to be honest. If sanctioned I will appeal.
Well my provider finally got around to sending me an appointment. They sent me the usual ‘it’s mandatory’ letter, and informing me to bring all job seeking evidence since my last appointment.
No chance! – The only thing I’ll be bringing along with me is a withdrawal of consent letter for them to sign. And if they don’t sign it, I’ll be off.
Interesting.
Is it part of your action plan (if you have one) or otherwise mandated that you bring evidence of your jobsearch?
If I was in that position then I would struggle. The only evidence I keep is in email records of mail sent out (if any gets sent at all) which I can’t print, or recorded in my jobsearch record which I bring when I sign on. So I would have to ask why, given that record is checked by the JC as normal and it is up to them to check it – not the WP. What right do they have to demand you submit to a ‘second opinion’? If you’ve been signing on then what right do they have to ask to see it: you’ve already satisfied the conditions of the labour market.
it’s this kind of insidious bullshit that worries me most about the WP. Of course non compliance will be recorded against you. But it isn’t up to them to monitor your compliance with your Jobseeker Agreement; that’s why you sign on. If they ask you to bring in what you have done since you last signed then surely you have the right to say no and that you will show that material to the jobcentre at the appopriate time (ie, when you next attend to sign).
I think such an action would be liable to bring about the ever present accusation of non participation. It’s a bit like the old services thing where if they couldn’t get you any other way you were accused of “dumb insolence”.
Had my appointment today. My new advisor said it was just a meet & greet. As to be honest, they probably won’t be my advisor next month – they’re moving, so I’ll be getting a new advisor. What joy.
Anyway, it was a compete waste of time to be fair. I straightaway brought up my concerns over A4e’s failed acknowledgement of my repeated withdrawal of consent letters. And we then spent around 40 mins talking about all the rip off & bad experiences I’ve had in the past – and why I won’t give consent now. They agreed with me for the most part, and even saying how the A4e boss taking a payment of 8 million for herself was a complete rip off.
Although, they haven’t signed to acknowledge my letter that I took – for fear for their own job. My advisor did record my concerns and consent withdrawal on the official paperwork. And said they’d pass on my withdrawal of consent letter to their boss.
Slightly fobbed off. But it’s a first, to actually meet an advisor who agreed with what I had to say on the subject.
Ghost Whistler you are right of course.
They can only ask about how one goes about looking for work and possibly suggest improvements.
However is worrying that the slavers/pimps seem more and more interested in raising entitlements doubts (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/30/david-cameron-work-firms-benefits?newsfeed=true).
My impression is that the climate of fear they engender is used to increase the number of people that are willing to accept bogus self-employment and its drop of income, as a way out of the pressure.
Interesting more than half of the entitlements doubts are rejected by the JCP.
Ghost how long was it since you were last contacted by the pimps?
Keep posting.
About 2 months now. However my GP wrote to the JC to ask what support they were giving. The reply he got (you can read it in my blog, I won’t bore you with the details here) is a proper load of bullshit. There is the threat of my being accused of ‘not engaging’ with the WP as the provider also lied about me not contacting them. At least that’s the inferrance: I was never mandated to contact them and haven’t been contacted since (which suits me fine). I’m hoping nothing will come of it as the letter is about 6 weeks old now (I only read it last week).
Employment minister Chris Grayling said there was no financial imperative for private firms to punish jobseekers. “This government expects jobseekers to comply with the conditions of their benefit if they are receiving taxpayers’ money,” he added.
Hang on, I paid tax for 20 years so everything I receive is just payback and my right.
Love 5 minutes in a room with these tossers
Afternoon.
Anyone remember me posting about that one day workshop that I missed due to the letter arriving the same day as the workshop. Therefore I couldn’t attend?
Just got the doubt letter for that too this morning!
Not too concerned though, the appointment was posted to me second class the friday before the holiday and therefore was rather bad timing by the pimps, just sloppy, or deliberate? Whatever the case the result is the same, another sanction doubt.
But due to this timing and the short notice involved and the bank holiday issue then once again a sanction should, realistically, not be applied. He said, hopefully.
And I kept the envelope, but wont send that in with the doubt, but will say that I have retained it. A scanned copy of the envelope perhaps? That could be any old envelope though, except the postcode is the pimps. Or just tell them the truth and if they happen to request it i’ll send it.
Still awaiting a response from the previous 2 sanctions I have responded to.
Blooming ‘eck!
Mr. No
I think your new name should be “the sanctionbuster”
Hey Gissa.
That might be a little premature. Let’s wait and see what transpires.
I’m sorry to hear about your endless sanction problems, mate.
It seems like you’re getting them for all of us(!).
Stay strong.
Hello friends.
Things have been going fairly well for me with the pimps. Even if I never get a bloody job interview.
I’ve been having fortnightly telephone appointments for the past couple of months, which spares me the usual slog to the place for a ten minute chat.
The new JCP self-service system has been a Godsend in two ways; firstly, it caps the amount of jobs I HAVE to apply for to ten per fortnight; and secondly, the pimps have no choice but to accede to that. It nicely neutralizes both sides, as long as you apply for 10 jobs a fortnight. I’ve been doing more applications than that, but saving them up for future weeks, building up a nice backlog of applications that help me through the bad weeks.
Part of me naturally worries it won’t be like this for the next 18 months or so. I’m waiting for the shoe to drop, and be sent to the Siberian work-camps with my fellow unemployed(!).
It is obviously very important that your pimp is on the level, and that you can show them you are also on the level regarding looking for work. Try to act like they’re your friend instead of your jailer. Charm them, crack a joke with them. If you turn up for your advisor appointments suited and booted (just like for an interview), and continually state your case and outline the applications you made, they cannot say much. Get them to allow you to jobsearch at home. Unless you have a total c*nt of a pimp, which is unbearable, I know.
It does seem that the WP bastards have bitten off more then they can chew and therefore cannot spare much time to fuck with your life as much as they did on previous programs.
Stay strong.
Hi Mr.X
Always pleased to hear when someone is at least finding the pimps manageable. Hope that continues for you.
This 10 jobs lark? Eh? Have to apply? Really? This the pimp, or JC?
One isn’t obliged by the legislation as it stands to apply for any jobs in any fortnightly period if their are no suitable vacancies to apply for. Some weeks it’s hard enough finding a couple. I average about 3 a fortnight. Actively seeking is the current legislation, not actively applying! Find something worth applying to? Then fair enough, but if there isn’t much going?
Not having a pop at you, not at all. If you are finding the vacancies then great, one day you might get enough interviews and then a job you actually want. and as you say, they cannot really say much to you if you applying for jobs. But this having to apply for 10 per fortnight is highly questionable.
Good to hear from you..
Take care.
There are 12 marked and numbered lines on my voucher. I don’t take this as meaning I have to apply for 12 jobs. Indeed the space provided is too small to fit the details in the boxes provided. All in all my previous habit of noting all detaiols in an exercise book was much neater and comprehensible. I’ve now stopped doing that as JCP insist on their form and pimpo insists on theirs.
Stupid really as they could both have had the information much better presented my way!
It’s NOT JAA (Job Appliers Allowance)! It’s JSA (Job SEEKERS Allowance)!
Seek (verb): to go in search of.
Lol. A good point, amusingly outlined.
Although I suspect adhering to the concise meaning of words, especially regarding the formal and legal usage, would be somewhat lost on your average pimp ‘adviser’.
Seek and ye shall find. Or possibly not? With regard to decent and fairly paid employment at least.
Hi, Mr No.
One of the JCP drones told us to fill out the ES24JP form; as it has 10 entries, we are expected to fill them out. They plainly said that they didn’t care what we did, as long as we filled out the form. But to clarify, I imagine that logging an *attempt* to find work could be okay; I just play safe with just listing the jobs I applied for. I just enjoy dropping the form off at the JCP without waiting around like before. In and out in less that two minutes. I feel it tremendously liberating, coupled with my pimp’s hands-off approach.
I know how horrible it is with struggling to find suitable jobs. There has been many a time when I couldn’t find a single job I could even apply for. There are a few now and again that I have applied for, *knowing* I will not get it, just to keep/make the numbers up.
Though to be honest, I am too inexperienced and unqualified for any job. Many times I see a job that I think I could do, but the advert immediately rules me out through certain stipulations (degree; five years experience with references from the Pope and the Dalai Lama; FFS, even one years experience). Most jobs don’t fit my personality, or my social anxiety. So basically nearly all my applications are being unanswered. Though I do get occasional rejections or contacts from recruitment people that lead to nothing.
I do search at a reasonably low salary level (so I am not taking the piss with applying for managerial jobs, et al). I imagine that I have applied for 300+ jobs in the past couple of years, with absolutely no success. So I have banged the drum for the government to stop targeting us, and to target the ridiculous minimum requirements/demands that employers have these days, whilst forcing us to ‘compete’ with cheaper migrant workers. Not to mention the continual sending of thousands of jobs abroad.
WE unemployed get blamed for successive governments failures.
Hang in there, pal.
The Huffington Post tells us what we alrwady know:
The WP is not working:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/07/08/uk-employment-work-programme-failure-labour-long-term-unemployment_n_1657249.html?ncid=webmail1
Please!!
Do not give them ideas!!
:-)
Good afternoon.
I have been sanctioned. The brown envelope containing the decision arrived this morning.
Although one isn’t really surprised and was half expecting an adverse decision I must admit that is rather stressful all the same. But once the initial shock factor decreases so should my stress levels. Might be a little incoherent!
I shall be appealing the decision. Although this standard letter gives no clue as to what specific sanction doubt it applies to, Bearing in mind I am dealing with 3 of the buggers!
All the letter really imparts is dates. Dates and simply that they “have now decided that you didn’t take advantage of a place on an employment programme”. True, but my reasons are sound, I feel a tribunal attendance coming on. Lol.
This notification must be for sanction 2 where I actually did not attend. And my lengthy response outlined the unreasonable behaviour of the pimps. The others realistically shouldn’t incur a sanction. Nor should this, but what can ya do, eh?
Or is this sanction like a bundled deal? Maybe they looked at all 3 doubts and then had a very quick think and gave me a package deal. Who knows? It’s a bit of a joke. We know this!
Being my first ever sanction this is all new to me. The letter implies that it might be a one month sanction.
And it doesn’t imply it’s immediate, But it also could do!
I may type it up later. Might get one more payment? Might not! Blooming ‘eck! It’s rather confusing,
I intend to telephone the Glasgow local rate (?) number to try and get some clarification. Or a ‘full explanation” to quote the letter.
i’ll request it in writing too. After I have listened to any info they may impart.
It appears, from this vague standard letter you can can have the “decision looked at again”. And they send you another decision. If it’s still not good enough it says “You will still have the right of appeal”.
So, the first thing is to dispute it with the DM and if that fails then you appeal to a tribunal. From what i can gather so far.
I’ll have to keep detailed records of dates etc. So that i will not be missing any time limits with regard to such..
I will get my allowance back! Backdated? I will give it a damn good try at least.
The moral standpoint of not tolerating bullying and coercive behaviour. Let battle commence.
I do not enjoy this, not one bit. But it is necessary.
I’ll update soon.
Very sorry to hear this.
“I shall be appealing the decision. Although this standard letter gives no clue as to what specific sanction doubt it applies to, Bearing in mind I am dealing with 3 of the buggers!”
That doesn’t sound right to me (legally speaking – these people will try it on whatever, though I’m not a lawyer). They must legally be obliged to tell you the specifics surely?
Mr No, have you yet received a: “We have decided the doubt no longer applies.” for the other two “sanction doubts”. And the letter should specify the time frame, somewhere buried away it should say: “We cannot pay you Jobseeker’s Allowance from: xx xxxxxx 20xx to xx xxxxxx 20xx.”
Bad luck, Mr No.
You probably know this, but the 1st WP sanction is supposed to be 2 weeks, the 2nd one is 4 weeks, and the 3rd one is 26 weeks, but that can be reviewed after 4 weeks if you “re-engage”.
They are looking to change that come Universal Credit next year so that the first sanction lasts (up to) 13 weeks!
Might as well be a death sentence.
The can’t even wait that long; the increased sanctioned penalties come into effect in the Autumn ahead of when Universal Credit is implemented.
Hey Charlie D. Cheers friend. I did indeed know that.
If only the letter stated simply something along the lines of ‘You will be sanctioned for a two week period commencing….’.
I am hoping that this is indeed a 2 week sanction. As outlined. For my first ‘offence’.
But late in the day to call Glasgow now. I shall gather my wits, do a bit of reading on the subject, get an early night tonight and call them tomorrow.
I don’t think I need the GL24 appeal form until after I have ‘disputed’ it with the DM. Getting them to look at it again. Then, from what I have read, you have one month from the date of the DM response letter.
According to the INF1(JSA) booklet they send with the letter.
One will probably have been through the sanction period and be getting payments again long before this is resolved. If it’s resolved. And then there are the other sanction doubts too. And any possible further ones!
I’m not thinking too negatively about that though, one step and issue at a time. Anger will not solve anything. Calm under pressure.
But as I have stated many times, I am lucky that I will have a roof over my head and I will eat. But it really hits home to me how fucking horrendous this all is and to think what less fortunate people go through.
Stay strong people.
“If only the letter stated simply something along the lines of ‘You will be sanctioned for a two week period commencing….’.
I am hoping that this is indeed a 2 week sanction. As outlined. For my first ‘offence’.”
So, wait, they don’t even tell you how long this is to last?
That is absolute bullshit.
‘You will be sanctioned for a two week period commencing….’. , but it wont mention the word “sanction”, the DWP-speak is we: “We cannot pay you Jobseeker’s Allowance”. And it will just be a general “Changes to Your Jobseeker’s Allowance” letter (to hide and obfuscate matters?) which probably has a few pages dealing other “changes” to your claim, probably innocuous such as: “Your Jobseeker’s Allowance will increase to £71 from 1st April 2012, this is because of the annual uprating of benefits.”
Mr No, you have been brave and I feel for you.
Of course you’re right, for someone like me (and actually the majority of us) sanctions are tough indeed. In future when housing benefits will be affected it will mean homelessness and likely a brutish untimely death on the street.
Your experiences and sacrifices will help others to cope in future troubles. So thanks for your courage and determination.
Stay strong.
PS
I had this crazy idea about using the Small Claim Court to try to reclaim the amounts sanctioned from the slavers/pimps claiming breach of contract (ie they failed to provide a minimum standard of help that their contract requires and therefore a loss to the recipient have ensued) but I have not enough legal background even to imagine if it is conceivable.
Hi Marcus.
Kind words, although I don’t know how deserved they are, one mans brave being another ones idiocy. But I appreciate the sentiment.
After my experience I felt I had no choice. I could not comply. But they were so out of order, the DM obviously didn’t share my opinion, or understand the facts that were presented. Hence sanction.
For me it’s a question of what is right and what is wrong, morally, not according to some legislation that has been cooked up by inept idiots through the years. And psychopaths, my provider being full of them.
I look for work, end of story in my opinion. I guess they don’t believe anyone actually does!
Thinking about my sanction for a moment… I have a feeling that it is not good, the letter isn’t very specific at all. But I think this is going to be the big one.
I think this is going to be a straight to 26 week job. I will find out when I ring Glasgow tomorrow.
Even if so, I think it still may be questionable, some of their own legal stuff, documents and such might indicate that it shouldn’t apply for ‘fail to attend’ issues, more like actively seeking etc, but they do what they see fit, don’t they. So much obfuscation and contradictory stuff out there.
Truly hope i am wrong and it is a 2 week sanction, but I think it might be 26 weeks.
I am even doubting that I have had my money paid into the post office this week. The letter in all it’s lack of clarity mentions a date 2 weeks ago for which they cannot pay me. but technically I should be payed until I am informed, which was today. The letter also goes onto say another date from which they cannot pay me, which is next month! To say it’s confusing is an understatement.
It’s all rather surreal. And possibly fascinating in a strange way. Anyway, that’ll do for now.
Cheers all.
JSA is paid a fortnight in arrears though; when you sign-on you are being paid for the previous two weeks.
Dr No, if it clearly states two distinct periods in which they “cannot pay you”, it is most likely referring to two separate sanctions. Is the second period (from next month) longer? as in 4 weeks? (applicable to one of the other “sanction doubts”? I really hope for your sake it isn’t because that would mean given the DM’s reasoning on the other two “sanction doubts” you are about to get hammered with a 26 weeks sanction.
No problem at all with passing on the info I have, Will sort it out on my web site for everyone to look at,Links for the info and even use some templates I have.
Still not perfected the route I’m taking but will find out how good it is when I take the 4 directors
to court, Just found out that I could be exempt from the court fees so have some reading to catch up on and then get the ball rolling.
Just sent the 4 directors Letter Before Action giving them 14 days to pay up or face court action with interest and my own legal fees added, £9.25 per hour x 30 or 50 hours (not worked out my study time yet).
Just had the strangest appointment today, No mention of my claim against the pimp worker even though it was delivered to head office in London on Monday, May not have been sent down to her yet in Leeds.
New scheme they offering in next 3/4 weeks, SIA Training (In house at Ingeus Offices) with them paying for the SIA Badge at the end.
Slight snag though because I have not signed anything at Ingeus they can’t put me through for it without signature or can do it all on paper and keep the paperwork locked away, Nothing goes on the computer. (Will have to watch my hidden camera again to double check this)
If I’m honest I like the idea of the 10 day course and the badge at the end of it but signing up to it will be giving them the ammo they need to get me in there grips for the 2 years.
I may have to get my own agreement written up stipulating that my signature is only for the SIA course.
Will also have to ensure in writing that the SIA badge is paid for upon completion of the course, without that fact in writing with a signature from the regional director (I know him had a long chat)
I won’t sign anything.
There was an * next to the SIA Badge in the sheet I was shown and they always mean check the small print,
Most likely something like this:
* SIA Badge payment is discretionary and depends on available funds.
End of the day if I can get a SIA Badge paid for I will be happy, Can get a job just like that once I have the badge. Just never have the £480.00 to risk for a stupid piece of card/plastic that then may be refused cause of a stupid incident when I was a little younger messing around with firearms.
Apparently even spent crimes are looked at in SIA Licensing now.
George
P.S
Will sort out the info for all a.s.a.p, Got a web site to finish first for a friend then all attention to Ingeus study and updating my web site.
George,
do not forget to let us know how you’re fairing and the very interesting steps you have been taking. Potentially your precedent could be very useful to the masses.
Marcus have no fear I will be posting up my results very soon.
Ingeus have 10 days then I take court action and then we will see if my process works.
If it does work everyone who has been sanctioned can claim so the masses can hit back big time and drive the pimps away.
Will keep everyone informed of any developments.
George
Hi Mr No, Sorry to hear about your Sanction letter, Hate these fuckers with a vengeance.
If it is your first Sanction it should be only 2 weeks, My first Sanction was only 2 weeks although they timed that right for me and was started in December right before Xmas.
I’ve just had a second Doubt raised because I failed to show up for an appointment, Tried to ring Ingeus but could never get through so wrote the pimp worker a letter and posted next day.
Even though she didn’t mention anything on next appointment and even gave me her own card with telephone number on in case I need to ring in again,she then went ahead and raised a Sanction Doubt.
Well I’m hitting back at these pimps big time, Since I did the letter route that also contains a fee schedule I have been using that.
Because she has now caused me tort of mental anguish I have sent in a claim against her for £1000, Another 4 claims also to go to the 4 directors too since they should be aware of how their employees conduct the work.
Come the end of this week I will have claims against Ingeus Directors and 2 support workers totaling £10,000.
The first £5000 I have already won through default and now just need to take court action to enforce the default and then I can collect or let the bailiffs collect for me.
Mr No if you sent in the letters from the beginning you can also take this route, Its common law and In effect you create your own court.
No judge can now remove the default that I have against the 4 directors and 1 employee, They can only help me now register it and god help Ingeus when I get the funds to take the legal action.
Have an appointment today with the same person who just created the new Sanction Doubt, I have a bet on that she will not be seeing me today, Either sick or pass me on to someone else.
Although I know for a fact even if she isn’t in today I won’t get any contact informing me and just passed onto the next pimp employee.
She got served my Affidavit and after checking royal mail track and trace, the special delivery parcel was signed and delivered on Monday to Ingeus C.E.O so should have been received by her by today, I may just take a 2nd copy just in case she hasn’t received it yet and then I can serve her personally. That will shut her up and make my appointment quick.
One appointment always stood out with this employee and she was joking around about my claims against Ingeus and asking me if it was personal against her, It was never personal until they start been judge and jury over my benefit claim and raising a sanction doubt,
I have that appointment on video somewhere, will dig it out and post up, I found it extremely funny since my claims must have been talked about in the offices.
Hope you hear soon how long your Sanction is Mr No and anything more than 2 weeks for your first Sanction is completely wrong.
George
Hi George’
You seem to be making progress with your “tort” approach.
It seems that this could be used by anyone who has been sanctioned, or even threatened with a sanction (had a doubt raised). If so then I’m sure that there are hundreds of people who would like to know more!
If you can spare the time how about giving us some details and links to relevant info? Either on this site or maybe here:
http://unemploymentmovement.com/
Hello all.
Edit – Bit of a long post, I have tried to be clear as possible. Tried! Lol.
Well, I rang the number on the letter and got some info.
The letter wasn’t much help, but to her credit the girl at the contact centre was quite decent and at least imparted to me some of what the fuck is actually happening.
All I can say really is blimey. I’ve been saying blimey all day!
I went to see if my allowance was there for me this morning. It wasn’t. So, that was pleasant. Not!
The first sanction period started on the 23rd June, till the 6th of July! So that one is spent now. Hence no money in my account. I will be appealing.
According to the woman i spoke to all 3 of my sanction doubts have been “upheld” which means NOT in my favour.
So…
1) Even for the first doubt where I WAS in attendance at the pimp I got sanctioned.
2) The one where the letter telling me to attend a workshop CAME ON THE SAME DAY AS THE WORKSHOP was being held, so therefore couldn’t attend… I got sanctioned.
3) The one where I actually didn’t attend? Guess what? I got sanctioned.
Now, number 3 was always a tricky one, but the other 2 should have gone nowhere near a sanction. I will appeal all 3, but numbers 1 and 2 should be successful on appeal.
Or rather after “reconsideration”, which is the step before the appeals process.
The DM dealing with my doubts must have been a right nasty psychopathic cunt, or couldn’t grasp reasonable written english. Or both!
In summary… It would seem, rather strangely in my opinion, that I have been given 3 sanctions.
And none of this is specifics, just “all of the 3 doubts have been upheld”. Apparently the dates are all that is required for reconsideration. Will be getting more info next week, or trying to! It’s as clear as mud.
The first sanction has been now been spent as i said above 23/06 – 06/07
The second runs from 07/07 – 03/08
The third runs from 14/07 – 27/07
As the woman on the phone said the second and third are running concurrently, so actually that’s a small mercy in the situation. She actually said i had been quite fortunate because she sees many like this getting 6 months straight off the bat.
These are what I believe are termed ‘variable length sanctions’ which at the DMs discretion can be anything between 1 and 26 weeks, so i have two of 2 weeks and one of a month! I think? It’s all very bizarre. i have only recieved the notification for one, she couldn’t tell me which specific doubt it referred to, but i think it’s telling me now about a 1 month sanction.
I will, or should at least, be getting my next payment on the 22nd of August. If she is correct and all being well.
Anyway I am getting forms sent to me and will be requesting the reasons and all that shit too in writing.
I WILL be getting at least 2 of these 3 sanctions squashed and my allowance backdated. Oh yes! Mind you, that will take some time i would speculate, but they’re not getting away with it.
Now I have to see if my letter of complaint to the pimp yields positive results or even more wrath. Whatever the case I am not intending to comply with bullshit, when, or rather if, they are reasonable i will try to engage with them.
If you read all that cheers, if you understood it all… Well done!
Cheers folks, all of you.
Should you not receive a payment around about 16 August? (2 weeks after the sanction period). 23 August is 3 weeks.
Hey Pizza.
Maybe mate? Who really knows for sure? I was told the 22nd and the dates add up. Although I will look at them again. I will attempt to further clarify things next week.
Start working out wordings for what else I can say with regard to ‘reconsideration’ of the sanction action.
At the moment I am a little disoriented from all the fun. Lol.
hello all ,i’ve been reading most of your comments on various sites now for awhile and have followed what you have had to say regarding the jobcentre, work programmes and various other stories sometimes with laughter,sadness and other times rage & anger at the lack of (or ignorance of) understanding of people…human beings who have through varying ways find themselves claiming benefits.im starin to waffle on so i just wanted to ask has anybody else come had there “NEW” flexible only for work programme customers voucher system start were they sign ? .it’s 9am-12pm on your signing day,take a slip from the side of the phone booths print your name, n.y. no , sign for the 2 past weeks don’t see anybody go outside and pop it in the letterbox….. ?
Hi Dexter21
I’m on the Work Programme and they haven’t started that in my Jobcentre yet. I have read elsewhere that some Jobcentres are doing this now though.
I wonder if it’s just a trial at a few or whether it’s just slowly being rolled out at all Jobcentres. Personally I would love to do that, I can’t immediately see any drawbacks.
Of course, long term, if it is rolled out to all Jobcentres, I think it’s just one more nail in the Jobcentre’s coffin. Eventually all Jobcentre work will be handed over to the providers and the Jobcentre staff will be joining the ranks of the unemployed!
Let’s see how they like Mandatory Work Activity then.
But it’s not just a case of printing your name, NI No. and signing, you have to give a record of your “job search” :-) as well. Not sure about this one, it all depends where it is going. If all it does it land a few more jobcentre bods on the dole and saves us hard-working taxpayers a few quid then it is a Good Thing. But if it puts more power in the hands of the providers then obvious it is a bad thing.
On your Jobseekers agreement you have three different things that you agree to do each week to look for work.
So, presumably, all you have to put on the new signing form is those three things, exactly as written on the JSAG.
Pointless, but I can’t see how they could sanction you for doing exactly what was agreed to in the JSAG between you and your adviser.
I still don’t see a problem with it, but perhaps I’m missing the point.
It used to be the case, maybe still is, in the South of Ireland that the only “signing” you did was at the post-office to collect your payment. “Signing-on” is a load of bullshit anyway. Still, we have to be cautious of government “initiatives” – we could be walking into a mousetrap.
Other people have mentioned these things, but I haven’t seen them. I still have to pointlessly fill int he jobsearch booklet. I suspect these are used in really busy jobcentres. Mine isn’t that busy (doesn’t stop it being short staffed of course).
hi lucozade
thanks for the reply,it’s only just started here but has you say whether it happens to be a trial or something more long term only time will tell.i agree it’s better for me too the only concerns i have is no face to face contact…not that we enjoying being there,i asked for a photocopy of my “voucher” (i’d already take a photo) to be told “im not doing that ! put it in the postbox outside !” which i politely said ok and left.what proof do i have that i’ve been thou ? you don’t have contact or show your signing book or have your name marked on a register…so it can be open to being mislaid in my eyes.what say somebody decided to stick a lighted match in the letter box,i know im theorising but im betting somewere it’ll be used for excuses of non payment.i did ask the question on my last “normal” signing day if this would lead to loss of jobs at the jobcentre..in a sarcastic manner i like to use lol.but as we all see has every week passes and do local job searches to see the system show so called jobs miles away from were we live how long before jobcentres move into supermarkets like what has happened in some towns like the post office and police.
What we’ve been predicting is coming to pass:
Welfare to work scheme co-ordinating firm goes bankrupt
Cry me a fucking river…..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa
And the laughs just keep coming…
Government almost halves number of people expected to use scheme, raising fears of job losses among welfare-to-work staff
We now have the delightful prospect of seeing the same scumbags who are so quick to sanction others facing the same odious process. Like they say: what goes around, comes around…
A quote from that article:
“Our data shows the work programme has had a promising start, with nearly a quarter of the early starters spending at least three months off benefits.”
You’ll note that they say “at least three months off benefits” and not “at least three months in continual employment”.
In other words they are including in their figures those poor unfortunates who have been forced into destitution by the abusive sanctions scheme. And they crow about that as being a “promising start”.
Villainous scum.
hi lucozade ,
were the figures just based on june 2011 (1 month) i think i read & governMENTAL figures also have a habit of distorting things with there “0” ending figures. and you rightly say how many were throu sanctions.;
In DWP-speak – “off-flow”
hi ,
no the jobcentre is saying it’s the work programme providers responsibility to check your job searchers & ensure your complying…like you say 3 steps per week minimum,if i see something more fine im not cutting my nose off ! but we all know these evil private company tossers will try throwing threats of sanctions at people who fear questioning them…myself my “journey” has been straightforward..ish , i don’t sign anything apart from the travel cost book…but i always say at this time,im polite if sarcastic and always say i will do job searchers. i think i’m what you call “parked” once a month for searchers & the same for a 10 min *cough* “advisor” meeting because they say there doing the “bare minimum” with me,some people tales of these scum bag private company leeches are alot worse than mine but over the time i’ve been going i’ve found it very liberating to keep throwing the ball back……signature & complying is key for them so question everything no matter how trivial :)
Hi, gang. Good to see you all keeping the place ticking over. Sorry for the prolonged absence but wheels within wheels. Anyway, I have been well and truly parked; the last time I saw my ‘advisor’ was on March 22. An appointment was made for April 20 but they cancelled it and haven’t heard from them since.
I’m guessing that it’s desperation time at the OK corral and they’re just dumping anyone that they don’t think can earn them money. The fact that I wouldn’t sign the Data Protection waiver; told them I was an alcoholic (I’m not); told them I have a criminal record for violence (I don’t), all of the foregoing convinced them that they’d never make a penny off me. Good. Fuck ’em, the crooked, greedy, fiddling cunts.
On July 22, it’ll be 4 months since I had any dealings with the pimps.Perhaps I’ll bake a cake to celebrate the way the whole shitty Work Program is falling to pieces…and they haven’t even published the data (due in October). Now, that’ll make for some interesting reading.
Great to see you back, Jack!
great work jack and everybody else fighting these scumbags ! :)
i think your spot on jack , if they cannot make any money out of you your of no use to them & are left at the bottom of the pile….which is fine by me too :) the only time they’ll make a effort is if they think they can palm you off into anything that well get them a result so they can tick there boxes and collect there money while having done very little…..personally i do more at home,it’s a shambles and a complete waste of money…..try asking the job centre fora training course and you get fobbed off with lack of funding/cut backs. they don’t care what you do has long has you can earn them tax & spend what little money you have on overpriced goods & food. if in a ideal utopian world you payed no taxes on your earnings and the jobcentre roles were only to fill vacancies would they care if you worked or not, of course not !
in reply to my posts about the flexible dec signing days ,my signing office is only small & quiet so probley that’s why it’s being trialled there before a bigger roll out.
Well guess what the postman dropped in today,nice brown enveloped letter,have been sanctioned for not turning up for an appointment.Fuck knows what they will call a good reason for not attending,maybe having a heart attack,getting knocked over will be enough as it seems attending a job lead isn’t enough.Oh well I really don’t give a fuck anymore,time to stop been nice these pimps. At least I now have another claim against them for another £5000 for the financial hardship they have caused me and my family.Have all the crap to do again now with housing benefit and my direct deductions for gas/electric will stop again.See a nice red bill coming in for the balance,as if I have £800 for an electric bill.
Will be without a doubt filing my court claims next week against these cunts and have some fun with the pimp bitch who caused the sanction, going after her now with a vengance,straight claim against the bitch, may have to change my claim and go after her home now.
Think its now time to sign off and I can tell the pimps to fuck straight off, will have nothing to hold against me. What a fucking country we live in, bet my sanctioned money will go to pay for the fuck up of a sports event that is the Olympics, will pay a pig for 4/5 hours since there getting £20 an hour.
Pissed off and angry as fuck but what can we do, will appeal again and make them waste more funds on getting the tribunal together.
George
Nice little earner is the Olympics :-)
Have you had any luck with your private legal stuff?
I must say it’s not something I don’t understand, but I hope you can win. I have my doubts – if only because these people just hold all the cards! They can just refuse to pay and you’d have to pony up to enforce it, if they let you.
Late Breaking News or The Short, Unhappy Life of The Work Program
I got a text message from my pimps at 5:00 PM yesterday, telling me that an appointment had been made for me today (my first in 4 months).
I just got a phone call from the pimps cancelling the appointment due to ‘…a staff shortage.’ I’d be notified of a new appointment date by post; I won’t hold my breath.
The Work Program: You Provide The Burning Cities, We’ll Provide The Fiddles
“I got a text message from my pimps”
Jack, oh Jack! A text message? You mean they have your mobile number? Tut! Tut!
lol I thought that was Work Programme Nullification Strategy: Rule No 1 :-)
I reconsidered. The pimps being sneaky fuckers, I didn’t want them saying ‘…we sent you a letter with your next appointment…you didn’t attend…we’re sanctioning you…’ and in fact, the post around my way is diabolical, so…
One appointment in 4 months; and that one cancelled? I’d say The Work Program Nullification Strategy® is working just fine…anyway, the crucial thing is to not sign the FOI waiver; without that, there’s virtually nothing to phone or text me about. So, fuck ’em…let them text me once every 4 months; I can stand it.
I’m only sorry that some people appear to be having a harder time with these cunts than I am. Sorry to hear about your travails, @MrNo and @theworkprogrammeme.
Your sentiments seconded.
I forgive you your lapse Mr. Cade.
Personally I don’t have:
1. An e-mail ddress
2. A land line
3. Internet access
4. A mobile phone
At least as far as PIMPO is concerned.
Snail mail will have to suffice
Ahhhhh!
They only have my phone number because i gave it to the JC when i first started signing on and consequenlty it got passed on. I’m not sure what woul dhave happened if I hadn’t given the JC my phone number and I wasn’t really in the mood to find out back them. Of course I can’t guarantee I will be available at any time they try to ring me, if they do.
Fot you dropped your moby down the toliet, Ghosty
Actually the last one i had i threw against a wall because the reception was so crap. What use is it when i miss calls all the time. :D
Hi everyone also sorry to hear some people on here are having a tough time with these wankers, I was left alone for about three months then had a letter with a new appointment with a new adviser went to this appointment she was a bit snotty at first asking for my c/v and saying I was not trying hard enough when I told her I had not signed the waiver you could see all the interest drain out of her, went up the next time it lasted 5 minutes was told to come back in a fortnight for a jobsearch I did signed in at the same time signed out walked up the computer room turn round and walked out ,Just got back from my appointment today guess what the girl on reception told me my adviser had not turned in I left telling her I will wait to hear from them fingers and everything else crossed it’s three months or longer again ,stay strong everyone it’s not long now before the work programme goes tits up
hi everybody,
i’m with gissajob on this the less information they have on you the harder it makes there life,i keep communication to a bare minimum always by letter.so what if it’s slow a mail service that can be used to your advantage !.give these pimps no excuses to throw sanctions at you and play them at there own game….play ball ,sign only for expenses at the maximum,don’t refuse anything but say i will have too look into it.don’t refuse job searches but play on your terms…..i’ve been told a number of times “i can’t be bothered with this” by my advisor (makes me laugh that word) treat it has a game. smile be polite, show them your above these money for nothing tossers !.it’s all marketing pr crap from these idiots spin on you. the jobs are not there they cant change this and will tell you anything to get there filthy paws on a big fat payment for having done sod all !.i have a question could somebody tell me what a “structured job search” is ? because at my provider (providing what i’ve yet to discover !) it seems like i’m left to my own divisors i’ve not been to many job searches and don’t see anything i can’t do from home,yes i know not everybody has a computer or internet access..but it’s pretty lame really. on my first search session i just walked in sat down started a job search i think i was there 40mins before i was asked who i was !, i’ve had to ask were pens,envelopes,paper are….very poor communication, last time i went i even had to turn the computer on myself ! professional setup i think not.only stamps & envelopes for me. i’ve seen people who just sign anything give all there information over thinking these leeches are there to help and you’ll get individual treatment and they care about helping you back into work….well they don’t it’s all about making money ! ,money which would be better used for re training & learning new skills.
Hi all,
I am in the same position as Jack. Not heard from the pimps/slavers for a few months. However my guess is that when staff changes (and it seem they do have a high rotation rate) the new adviser look at the list of victims and try to find out what’s worth milking. Then one has to repeat the parking process again. So probably there is no overall strategy.
As for the voucher system it has been in function in my JCP for over a month. However in addition to the worry that the voucher get lost I have heard of people getting sanctioned because they did not include in their job-search a website URL or telephone number or Job Reference Number (I imagine the same guideline for the ES4JP “Looking for work” form). The sanctions were for one month. So it looks as an excuse both to save manpower and to increase the rate of sanctionable people. One should spend some time and care on the vouchers it seems.
PS
Mr No how are you holding out?
Hi Marcus
I was doing OK, thanks for asking.
Until today. Remember I said that I was expecting my next payment on Aug 22? Make that January! The 6 month sanction has arrived.
I was in the process of debating this coupon method of signing on, i think that is the least of my worries.
Once the shock subsides i am going into full legal fight mode.
I was just getting my appeals together, now this. I don’t know what the fuck I am to appeal. Everything I suppose? I have a feeling i will be attending a tribunal soon. The only way really.
My gosh. in person would be much better, I’ve made some rather hard people have there jaws drop in amazement at how we are treated. It just seems to tumble out my gob,
I was rather annoyed being sanctioned till Aug 22. But now it’s the 6 month jobbie.
The gloves are coming off! Or is that the wheels? Or both?
Hardship? Ha! You must be joking. I’ll give it a go though.
I am trying to stay calm. I will be OK. It’ll be tough, but I’ll get through.
sorry to hear that mr no , 6 months !!! how the hell are yo meant to live ?…these scum bags really have no idea how peoples life’s are being effected. if you closed your claim can you still appeal ?
Cheers dexter
I’ll keep my claim open. Will still sign on etc.
I am fortunately in a position where I will eat etc. But what this must be doing to the meeker people in society i don’t know. Well, we do.
It’s stressful enough when you are a reasonably strong person.
This is what total non compliance results in folks. Be careful out there.
glad to hear you’ll be ok im in the same boat has i’d be ok too but that still don’t make it right ! ,yes it can grind you done & make your head spin from replying,appealing & arguing against these people…..but stay true to yourself ,your morals and principles.they’ll all in it together and in my eyes the dwp are just has crooked..if not more so than the work *cough* providers.good luck with your appeals ans stay strong :)
Mr No,
that really sucks. What you have been suctioned for exactly? I thought that you should have been notified of any relevant “doubt of entitlement” first!!
On a more practical level do you or anyone knows if when suctioned one can still apply to become self-employed and receive working tax credits (even if the amount is less than the JSA still would be better than nothing)?
hi everybody,
there seem to be some variation regarding the voucher coupon,marcus is this at your jcp office or your work provider ? , i was told the jcp didn’t check es4jp bookets anymore it’s the providers job to check your job searches/applications….they’ve wiped there hands with us has such.posting the coupon throu the letter box is nomore too it’s now give it to a staff member on reception…so im guessing some poor sod had his/her benefit not payed on time throu a lost/misplaced/cocked up coupon.
Dexter21,
it seems the vouchers are introduced piece meal by the various JCP. There is a broad similarity but each JCP do it in it own fashion. I had a friend in Gravesend (now at work) that had to present a list of job applied and countersigned by the pimps/slavers!! However elsewhere, like in my JCP, it seems that a rough duplication of the looking for work form is deemed enough.
When I signed on today I asked my adviser if she’d heard of this voucher scheme and she hadn’t heard of anything like it.
It does seem strange that it is only being seen in a few Jobcentres. I wonder if it’s only in Jobcentres where there are a lot of Jobseekers?
is there anymore on these signing coupon that you have to fill in other than the following ?
1. name
2. n.i. number
3. mobile no or landline (i put n/a since when is it compulsory to supply a telephone number it’s not don’t let them tell you otherwise !)
4. date
5. signed
6. date of period shown
7. date
anymore then it’s a different coupon to the one i fill in.
Dexter21, I posted in this blog a scanned copy of the coupons. They have space for 6 sample job application that have been done. When the first time the system was in place, I talked to the woman that was assisting people with the new system.
Was she that said that the coupons was used to save manpower at the JCP. As for the records of job applications there was a time when it was possible to sign on without any proof of work search (at least in my JCP) but after few months the practice was re-introduced (with the ES4JP “Looking for work” form). However while before you could talk to the signing on staff if there were problems with your jobsearching record now it is all done, it seems, without you the claimant having the chance to explain.
“There is no legal requirement for a Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) customer…to supply their provider [or DWP Jobcentre] with a CV…, an e-mail address or a telephone number. ”
Source: DWP Central FoI Team
“Claimants only have to ‘show‘ Providers a copy of their CV, they do not have to use the DWP’s or Provider’s job brokerage service if they don’t want to. Providers do have to ask the claimant for permission to contact prospective employers. In short, the claimant is correct in quoting the Data Protection Act.”
Source: IndusDelta
Hi guys.
As mentioned above, 6 month sanction blah blah… If you hadn’t read such.
This is something different. Regarding my formal letter of complaint to my pimp.
Sent it off Tuesday by recorded signed for, checked the track and trace today and it states words to the effect of ‘We tried to deliver your letter, but left a while you were out card’
Now, I suppose that in some places that there are indeed postmen and woman out on the streets delivering letters before shops and businesses open for the day.
I guess the pimp opens at 9, so it is possible that this is the case.
This letter isn’t to my branch, but another where the person who deals with complaints allegedly resides.
I cannot imagine pimpo going to collect a letter from one of there non compliant bitches.
I’ll see if they have picked it up next week and if not i think i will travel the several miles and deliver it by hand. Probably phone ahead, give the compliants manager time to run. Or not?
Ha!
Dunno? Play it by ear. Will they sign/provide a receipt of acceptance should I not actually see it get to the relevant person? If this WP lark wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious. Bloomin’ ‘eck!
Cannot wait for the re-engagement negotiations to start, that’s going to be fun!
As many of you may know if sanctioned for 26 weeks you can have this lifted as long as you engage with the pimp. Hmmm? But you must have served 4 weeks of your ‘sentence’ before you can have it lifted.
When THEY decide you have fully complied then you get the sanction lifted. Complied with the original activity or a new one. Fun fun fun. Hmmm? I cannot imagine them being fair and prompt with such actions. They’ll probably enjoy the psychopathic kicks they get, a bit of sport for them perhaps?
No wonder they are so arrogant and nasty. A few people have said to me that maybe I should just comply. And yeah, i will, when it’s more reasonable, otherwise they can just fuck off. I’ve had enough.
A job? Yeah, sure. Is there one? Oh, not allowed to put no suitable vacancies found anymore? Oh well. Fuck that too, even the JC are trying it on. Though i’d rather deal with them than the pimps any day.
That’s all folks, For now at least.
You would be better trying to get your income stream restored as quickly and a painlessly as possible, Mr No. I wouldn’t worry too much about being a “Martyr to the Cause”, because that is just complete bullshit – unless there is something in it for you personally. If you sink, you sink and are quickly forgotten about. Look after No 1 and fuck the bastard pimps and their collaborators in the cunty DWP!
Hey Joan! Et all.
Quite a statement, straight to the point and succinct.
I assure you I am not the ‘martyrdom’ type.
I am just doing what I am doing, honestly documenting my experiences. Nothing more.
I am a little rebellious by nature and the pimps well and truly overreacted to my declining to sign and giving all my details. And now I am paying the price for simply not complying with their punitive bullshit which was unreasonable and disproportionate. And they acted very horribly too.
So, I stopped attending. And have been sanctioned severely. I will be appealing.
Although they all contradict each other so much and the ‘rules’ such as they are are rather vague. I’ll do my best.
I intend to get some sort of revenue stream trickling again. Currently working on my fitness so that I can consider more employment options.
Anyway, I appreciate your words
In other news…. I got the 26 week DWP sanction notification letter on Friday. Saturday morning another sanction doubt from JC+. I’m rather bemused.
Though they have finally have got around to mentioning in the doubt letter about the 3 times a week jobsearch stuff. I am now suspecting that the DM must pass on the info to the pimps, hence this more accurate doubt letter. Refining their processes? Colluding? Phew!
And talk about inefficient, the 2 identical letters (?) in the envelope are blank on the back (?) and have to be addressed to the same DM who obviously couldn’t grasp how 2 of the doubts he has previously considered were just not sanctionable. Really!
A few DWP employees i have spoken to have agreed in astonishment and reckon that on reconsideration they would be overturned and wouldn’t even be deemed worthy to go to a tribunal. So, we’ll wait and see with that.
With regard to this further sanction letter, I have already got to the 26 week one, what now another one has arrived? More concurrent running?
I need some serious fucking help and luck, or decent human beings at the tribunal. Oh well.
The terrible thing is i actually want a job, not too fussy either, as long as it’s doable, reasonable.
I actually do look for a job, I know, who’d believe such a thing of an unemployed person.
And also, i am not going to start lying and making up the numbers, the job market is shit so why the fuck should I have to pretend and play these stupid games. I never have thus far. Though I may actually start having to.
I find this all rather astonishing. I wonder if they will accept that having no income seriously limits your jobsearch. I couldn’t afford to attend the pimps office even if I was so inclined at the moment. But I’m OK. Managing. Trying.
Goodnight people. Time to chill. And so to bed.
Sorry to hear of your ongoing hassles, @MrNo…but this should cheer you up: more exciting news from those crazy, wacky fun-loving madcaps who brought us the Work Program…work for free for six months or lose all your benefits.
What could possibly go wrong?
Well, it’s good news that the CAP (Community Action Programme) has been scrapped :-) Hip, hip, hooray :-) The bad news is that is has been replaced by/renamed SFTLTU (Support for the Long Term Unemployed)
hello all
whats CAP & SFTLTU doris ? ,are they organisation with caring sharing names which make out they’re there to help but really only there to get you sanctioned or are they any help ,well no now one’s been closed lol
Actually it’s SFTVLTU!
the “V”” being “very”
“Support”? They’re having a laugh..
George Orwell will be spinning in his grave to see the “newspeak” become reality.
What next – The Ministry of Truth perhaps?
yeah i hate the overuse of the word “support” when it’s not support at all it’s bullying do has we say you scum or we’ll take away your very basic living standards ! they all belong to TWATS…..it’s a select club for grovelmental tossers
Tried direct line to JC branch today, no answer. Tried the 0845 switchboard number. All fucking afternoon it just went *Click*.. And a recorded (?) message played saying “The other person has hung up”.
Finally got through to someone when I rotated the last digit to my only ‘direct number’.
Only to be told that the two people who may have been able to offer assistance weren’t there today, they weren’t there friday either, tomorrow? What a joke.
hi ya mr no
i would contact citizens advice mr no ,let them ring for you they may help…..i think the whole country going down the swanny ! nobody gives a shite ! services being run down….but if it was you they needed to contact..well that’s different had u know ! …..chin up even if it’s hard to keep your moral up don’t let the tossers grind you down .
I hope you get this sorted out soon. It’s ridiculous to be sanctioned for 6 months.
Have you spoken to the CAB?
Are hadship payments still around? (I heard they were being withdrawn).
Hi GW.
The CAB? I may well do, if one can actually get in to see them, that itself can be challenging around here! And from what I can gather it’s possible that we here know probably as much as the average CAB adviser. Of course, there are the good ones out there, I mean no disrespect with that comment.
Hardship? Yes, it’s about. I have had numerous JC representatives telling me to apply, even a WP services manager (?) at my JC who spoke to me on the phone. Funny that, when I requested someone to speak to recently there was nobody apparently. So who is this ‘WP services manager’ person? Well, I have her name now. Her sympathetic ear may be rather more difficult to reach.
I had to tell her when she mentioned hardship that it doesn’t apply when you are on a WP sanction, That stumped her! I’m still going to apply for it though. Knowing that I’m exempt! Zero income! Really fucking helpful with regard to securing some employment.
Eating, clothing, toiletries etc etc. Anyway, before I start rambling I’ll stop here.
Take care mate.
You may be able to get a Hardship payment Mr No.
Look at sections 7.12 and 7.13 of this DWP memorandum: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/jsa-sanctions-draft-regs-2012-memorandum.pdf
I don’t know when in 2012 these changes come into effect but you may be lucky!
At any rate it’s something you can can query with the Jobcentre.
Hi guys.
Thanks all for your messages of support, much appreciated.
@Jack – I sometimes feel that I post a bit too much, that perhaps I should look into making my own blog. But I have come to like your blog, yourself and the people that visit here and because I have mostly documented my experiences here would like to continue. I am quite expressive as a human being in most aspects of my life and corresponding with you guys is most helpful. I hope you can relate to this and the sentiment I am trying to convey.
I have been feeling rather down the past few days, like unemployment is the only thing in our lives that is stressful, eh? But I will bounce back, good days and bad etc.
With regard to my sanction situation I am simply having to follow my gut instincts with regard to navigating this difficult time. The correct procedure and how best to respond to the powers that be is rather unclear, so i will simply do what I feel is the best way for me.
I have decided that for me a formal letter asking for ‘Reconsideration’ in the first instance is the way to go, then if this yields little resolution I will progress to an appeal and the associated tribunal. Apparently I will have a further month for the appeals procedure upon any unfavourable response to my letter asking for reconsideration.
I feel I may get 2 of the sanctions overturned, but I think the wider issues that have led to this 26 week sanction will end up needing me to attend a tribunal.
To tell the story of the day that I was issued with this mandatory activity and explain things in person. And respond to any questions they might ask to clarify the situation.
Thankfully I can make sense of a lot of the legal stuff and where remedies may exist, but blimey… It’s not easy!
I might get this sorted soon, I might not. I have a reasonable grasp on dealing with this sort of stuff, feel reasonably confident in my abilities, but there are no guarantees.
We can only do our best
My very best regards to all. And I wish us all the best of luck with getting through our respective issues.
The notion that you post too much is a figment of your imagination, @MrNo…the more the better, I say. What you and everyone else posts is bound to help others who are either going through or facing something similar: have at it, me old son.
I’m only sorry that you’re having such a bastard of a time with these cunts whereas I seem to be getting off lightly (so far..fingers crossed). I sincerely hope it all comes right for you soon. Remember: you are not alone.
Doubtless, you’ve seen the latest caper from that irredeemable swine Grayling?
Minister ‘tried to censor’ video aimed at helping disability claimants to appeal
Christ…what did we do to deserve these amoral scum?
The key point the video, that the Grayling cunt doesn’t want you to know, (Mr No), is that you stand a much greater chance of winning your Appeal if you take it to a Tribunal.
To be precise, you stand double the chance of being successful if you turn up in person to your tribunal.
I’ll be attending. Oh yes. My gosh yes. cannot wait.
I doubt the reconsideration process will get all my sanctions overturned. I’m expecting the 2 easier to explain ones to be squashed. That will (might) be 4 weeks backdated.
Though for the trickier stuff, tribunal. The dwp wont really like to admit that their precious WP is being run for the most part by psychopaths.
Although don’t get me wrong, i would much rather none of this had happened.
He only makes himself look like more of a cunt (if that’s possible) with stunts like this.
I’d love for someone to bring up his expenses shenanigans next time he’s questioned in public about his disgraceful treatment of the poor and the vulnerable.
I take comfort knowing that one day he will be dead, and life will go on. The tories will one dahy just become a nasty chapter in a history book.
Hi guys.
My letter asking for reconsideration of my sanctions went off today, wonder how long before a reply?
Also phoned up challenging the ‘voucher’ signing system too, i don’t fancy being part of the dole lottery. I have to go in friday and negotiate. And get signed on. Obviously I was told this is the new way etc, but when i mentioned words like discretionary, and “from a legal perspective”, I was told to come in to talk about it.
On my info regarding this new way of signing it states…
“Please not that other people MAY NOT deliver your coupon on your behalf, If we find you have breached this then you will be excluded from these new arrangements and will revert back to the previous arrangements of attending the office every fortnight for a face to face interview”.
Ok, that’s fine I’ll just stay with that then.
I could subtly hint that due to my lack of income i ‘may’ have to ‘take a chance’ and have someone drop it off for me occasionally. Or maybe not? Half joking. Show me your papers! Lol.
Yeah, it might incur their wrath, but I’d rather explain to a JC+ representative what the legislation of jobseekers is rather than take a chance with the voucher that could be deemed insufficient by some anonymous person and it sent off to a DM. The state of the job market means that sometimes there are only one or two suitable jobs to apply for. Not obliged to apply as long as one is seeking. Until I actually do get a job I intend to fuck about with these people as long as they are fucking with me, if they are decent I will be, quite simple really.
I also stated that i was sanctioned for 6 months and felt I had little left to lose. I intend to be as polite as a very polite thing, calm as you like and just see what happens.
@Jack, thanks for your words.
|
And @Lucozade, cheers to you too. Thanks for the link. Although Knowing my luck I’ll be one of the first in the country to get sanctioned for a decade! Lol.
Feeling a little brighter today. A nice stroll in the sunshine has helped.
Cheers.
Lucozade thanks for the pdf (The Jobseeker’s Allowance (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations 2012). I also found the link to the paper here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2012/9780111526149/memorandum/contents
Mr No I could not find out if there are any regulations regarding becoming self-employed while on sanctions. Could it possibly be an escape route, anyone know?
Also from the paper mentioned above:
“Existing features
7.18 Alongside the introduction of a revised sanctions structure important elements of the
existing sanctions regime will be carried forward, these include:
•
Safeguards such as providing claimants with an opportunity to explain why
they have not complied. If they provide a good reason then a sanction will not
be imposed. Within the existing system this is currently called providing
‘good cause’ or ‘just cause’ whereas in the revised regime it will be referred to
as ‘good reason’ but it will apply in the same way. However, in the revised
regime regulations will not set out particular circumstances or situations for
the Decision Maker leaving him to take into account all reasons considered
relevant when determining good reason;”
I do not think the paper has e force of law yet (I am an ignoramus on the legislative procedures) but maybe could be used to bedazzle with “Rules & Regulations” petards some lower rank functionary.
Mr No you are trailblazing.
Keep strong and ask if you need support.
Marcus said:
“I could not find out if there are any regulations regarding becoming self-employed while on sanctions. Could it possibly be an escape route, anyone know?”
Am I missing the point here Marcus? Surely if you become self employed that makes any sanctions irrelevant?
Also, as I understand it, sanctions stay in place no matter what you do. So, if you’re unlucky enough to get one of the new 3 year sanctions and, say, after six months you find a job but are then made redundant after a year, you’d still be within the sanction period so wouldn’t be able to claim benefit.
How that works with the fact that you’d have been paying Income Tax during that period, a portion of which is directly taken to pay for unemployment benefits, I have no idea. Presumably it’s be one more thing that you’d have to take the DWP to court over under a Judicial Review.
I suppose the moral of the story is – don’t get sanctioned – but we already knew that.
You could get a 3 year sanction at age 16, work without a break for say 50 years until 66 (still short of retirement), having paid an exorbitant amount of Tax and National INSURANCE, get made redundant, claim JSA and still have to serve the 3 year sanction!
Self-employed tax credits for a single person work out at £1830.24 a year (£35.19 a week) – some sanction!
HMRC,
do you know of any good and plain English, sources of info on self-employed tax credits?
I visited some but they always do not explain the practicality of the steps involved in
getting them.
To receive this amount is subsequent years i.e from next Tax Year you would have to be declaring a profit (income) of £0 or a loss. If you were to declare National Minimum Wage (NMW) of £11065.60 (£6.08x35x52) you would receive £544.31 (£10.47 a week).
Well,
I was asking because I read:
Explanatory
Memorandum for the
Social Security Advisory
Committee
Universal Credit Regulations 2012
For the meeting of the Social Security Advisory Committee on
Wednesday 13 June 2012
Terminating Sanctions
275. It would be wrong for a sanctioned claimant to be able to avoid their sanction by
terminating their award and then re-claiming within the period of any sanction. The
regime is therefore designed to ensure that where a claimant’s award is terminated
and they subsequently re-claim and receive a new award of Universal Credit during
the period of the sanction, any outstanding reduction period will be applied. To
provide an example, if a claimant leaves Universal Credit after 30 days of a 128 day
sanction has been imposed, remains off benefit for 21 days and then reclaims the
balance of the sanction of 77 days will be applied to the new award.
276. We do though want to encourage and to reward claimants for moving into work.
Therefore where a claimant moves into work (above their conditionality earnings
threshold) for 182 days or more after their last sanctionable failure then his/her
outstanding sanction will be terminated. The 182 days does not have to be a
continuous period so the claimant will be able to terminate the sanction where they
have several short periods of work.
But I do not understand much of the legalese. Besides if one is subjected to sanction and can bulls it way into a self-employment, even £35 a week plus Rent Rebate is a good deal better than zilch.
But again I am far from being confident.
Hi all.
Marcus – I’m afraid when it comes to self employment I’m not too brushed up on such. Especially if it’s a route that the likes of us could take. I tried it once, failed, but tried at least. Years ago.
Thanks for your links and info though, I will take a peek at some point.
I have a meeting at the JC tomorrow, primarily about my wanting to sign on in the ‘traditional’ way. Wonder how that’ll go? Though my sanctions will be mentioned. How could I not? Ha!
One hugely important question that i will attempt to get answered is… What happens to the new signing on forms? This I particularly want to know. I am actually wondering if they send them, or the info on them to the pimps.
I say this because it seems the JC acting outside their legislative remit with regard to instructing us (at my branch at least!) how to fill it in quite extensively, no vacancies will NOT be accepted, apparently. Yeah right. What about when there aren’t any. I tell ’em straight, don’t believe in bullshitting.
Anyway, I’ll let you know how it goes.
Went along, tried to be decent, remained decent, wouldn’t let me opt out of the coupon system.
The woman wasn’t very pleasant, usually the JC staff i find generally ok, this one was a typical manager drone. Wanted to “Terminate the conversation” at one point, but I wouldn’t let a little thing like that stop me. So, on it went. It was so fucking stupidly a waste of time that i didn’t even get to enquiring what happens to the poxy forms.
Oh yeah, accused of playing “word games”, nice… A non aggressive but assertive manner, whilst posing valid and pertinent questions and quoting the law/legislation etc is word games.
I really do not give a shit anymore, well i do, but fuck it i’ve had enough
It seems they are trying to ‘kid’ the people on the WP with this shit. They have issued some badly photocopied guidelines which imply that super detailed accounts AND job applications are required. I challenged this and had to remind her it’s 6 steps and that if indeed there are jobs suitable i would apply and they would appear on the form, but in the current climate there might not be some weeks.
She began by trying to say that there HAS to be job applications, I disagreed. Oh, but that’s not allowed is it.
But she relented after a battle of wits and the stare of doom! Which i told her about. How she was looking at me and how it made me feel uncomfortable, it didn’t, but i thought I’d say it did, it wasn’t a nice pleasant friendly face.
I think she senses that i don’t suffer fools gladly and she apologised to me for the word game stuff. She started smiling a bit then.
A spark of humanity ignited in her? Or, hang on i’d better be just a tiny bit nicer because he has sussed that we are full of crap? Hmmm?
.
Oh and the pimps deny receiving a ‘While you were out card’ with regard to my complaint letter.
Nice. A duplicate second attempt by recorded will be in the post this week!
It really is getting stupid. Although as i have often maintained it really depends on the personality of whoever you are faced with on the other side of the desk with regard to how it all works out.
Get a good one and you are lucky, get a drone and you are screwed. This woman today even invited me to complain! Of course, she knows that it’s basically a waste of time too.
Will just have to do the voucher thing and see what happens. As i told her I’m not simply going to start bullshitting, my jobsearch has always been accepted thus far, however sparse, so that’s how it will remain.
If I think of anything else pertinent i’ll post it up.
I have some serious misgivings about this “coupon” system; on the surface it seems a lot more expeditious and efficient. What concerns me is the amount of detail required which appears to be over and above what is required under “regular” signing, the fact they have a written record of your “jobsearch” which they don’t have under the “grey diary” system, who/what deems if the coupon has been filled in to DWP standard, is the information entered on the coupon checked, is the information shared with the pimps. Boxing a claimant in by insisting they apply for non-existent jobs is beyond ridiculous; it must be the oldest trick in the book. I get the impression that a 3 year sanction could come flying out of the blue under this “coupon” system
Good points all. Completely agree.
3 year sanction? I’ll let you know! Hahahahahahahaaaaaaa.
And…. We’re back in the room!
That’s the thing – you can never trust these cunts!
Mr. No
I do the coupon system – so far no problems.
But
I trmember the explanatory notes saying that reversion to the fixed appointment signing on was always an option for the claimant. I do not see how they can deny you this.
No body wants to see you take an unecessary hit here mr. No!
Yes, the same I have not had problems so far but I try and fill the 6 spaces with something that look like the specs from the DWP leaflet “What to expect from your ES4 Looking For Work Booklet”. I know however of people that got sanctioned since the introduction of the coupon system. When I asked about why it was introduced I was told by the JCP employee in charge that it was because save staff time (she was in charge on her own of inputting in the system all of the claimants on the voucher) and even insisted that use only the original badly photocopied forms and that they should be handwritten (I am not clear why that is, but I suspect that she was just wanted not to deviate from the rules she was given).
Personally I think that the chances to be checked are zero at most late or otherwise missing or obviously badly written forms may be the primary caused of entitlement-doubts to be raised.
It is of course an added risk but not (yet) as AS4JP believes could be.
Mr No can you make any capital from the letters that the slavers/pimps or the JCP has sent to you in light of the Cait Reilly ruling (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19146347)?
OMG Just took me £10 in credit and 2 days to get through on this number 0845 6088590 regarding wife’s benefit payment that wasn’t paid yesterday. Yet again a complete fuck up by the DWP/JCP, Sanction someone and stop everything, direct payments, housing Benefit and even forget to pay the partners allowance.
Then you have to phone a number like above which is just a cash machine for the DWP keeping you on hold as long as possible to generate as much cash as they can.
For god’s sake this number should be FREE from landlines and mobiles, The people phoning can’t afford to keep on hold for 30 minutes at a time there on benefits or even worst on benefits and have been Sanctioned so have no money to fund calls.
This just goes to show what a whole mockery our DWP system is now, Too slack all those years ago and swapped with immigrants have now brought the whole system down and its us Brits at the losing end now with Sanctions for anything they can get away with to save cash.
Thank fuck I go away next few weeks for a well deserving holiday, May be able to relax unless DWP want to fuck it and phone me in for a job, Think I will have my phone off and include an email address for em too that I can check each day.
Think a letter on the day I go on holiday to Ingeus too (recorded delivery) explaining I am now on holiday and any upcoming appointments will have to wait.
Never got a new appointment last time as they are trying to get me to sign up for an SIA course of which they need my signature which I have always refused em.
May just use them for the SIA License but will have to draft up and agreement that the pimps will need to sign before I do.
A few nice disclaimers in there with fee schedule if my data is used for any other purpose and of course the guarantee that the Pimps will pay the license fee once the course is completed.
Still no news of my legal/comma law claims I have ongoing will update as I progress with these as they could be the lifeline for all those SANCTIONED to hit back at the Pimps and DWP.
Mr No, hope your well and sincerely sorry to hear about your 6 months Sanction, Hope your appeals work and DWP get their fingers out of there ass and sort you some payments out.
Stay strong everyone, Don’t let the fuckers beat us
George
Many immigrants can not afford a loaf of bread, never mind a holiday.
Well just received a brown envelope in the post, Confirming my full payment (5 days late) and confirming the Sanction Doubt has been overturned.
Looks like they do read our appeals after all and who ever read my appeal has some common sense and overturned the decision to stop my/our money.
Hop you get the same sort of sensible person Mr No and they overturn all your Sanctions too.
Strange thing though also received another brown enveloped letter full of info about the Work Programme but mainly threats of Sanctions if you don’t participate, Explaining Sanctions 2 weeks then 4 weeks and finally 26 Weeks.
As far as I’m concerned I have participated as far as I can, If Ingeus require my signature for anything they can go jump in a lake and drown.
Got a nice 2 weeks holiday coming up (Lake District) (Camping use to be fun) and I think when I get back I will just sign off or check out self employment, any payment is better than nothing.
Got my 5 N1 Claim forms here for Ingeus Directors and a pimp worker and will be filing these as soon as I get back off my break, Nothing to lose and £5000 to claim so fuck em, Lets see what there so called solicitors make of my claims in court. Hopefully a nice way for everyone to hit back at the pimps for all the Sanctions and a nice bit of cash to boot.
Keep sane everyone, Don’t let the bastards get you down.
George
hi george,
if the letter you received explaining sanctions is unsigned and has no address from which office it came from it’s one we will all receive . it’s a “reminder” to toe the line you serfs or has most will see it a threat ! which it is , i would imagine it’s been sent to everybody on the work programme because of the cait reilly case and others like it were they didn’t inform correctly about the sanctions. in other words it’s to cover there own arse ! .
hi everybody,
continuing on the signing coupon theme…is everybody’s form classed has – ES24 SIGNING COUPON, because it appears there’s some differences between spaces on the form for job applications/searches and none at all.so can this be the same form ? can each jobcentre use a different form…should it not be universal ?.regarding the cait reilly case did we see any other outcome ?, they’re in league together it could not fail for them ! it would have destroyed there plan for the future……mass unemployment + work for benefits = bigger profits for corporations & very little payment for the serfs !. i see it being the norm in years to come unless people act !.
Guys looks like the rules have changed.
Just been informed that since I have been Sanctioned my wife’s payment is also Sanctioned.
Anyone know if this is correct or am I just been told bullshit, Can not believe they can get away with this kind of behavior, How the fuck is anyone suppose to pay any bills buy shopping with NO money at all.
Anyone know the correct ruling, Possible links.
George
Update:
Just made another call and good news we are been paid the full amount, Was sent out today and will be with us Friday. (fuck knows what that other guy was on about talk about blind leading the blind)
Only thing I can conclude from this is that my Sanction Doubt has been removed on appeal,Seems like my letter in the appeal did the job.
Seems like they may actually look at our appeals then and take action when its wrong.
Hope you get the same person who looked at mine Mr No as yours are so so wrong.
Can stop panicking now.
George
P.S
Anyone in Leeds getting these signing form/coupon yet, No sign at my place (yet)
Hi George. Phew, lucky escape, nice one.
I indeed hope that I get one of the better humans looking at my reconsideration letter.
Also… Just rechecked the track and trace for said letter and it’s arrived and been signed for. Just in time before the specified month was up for the first sanction.
Just to get the 2 silly sanctions overturned would be good for now. And hopefully get backdated pay for such.
However the big one where i am challenging the initial unreasonable mandatory activity that led to all this… This might require a proper appeal and a tribunal. One will just have to wait and see.
I to have had the “letter” telling me all about the sanctions from the dwp they are a bunch of wankers stay strong everyone i think things are about to hot up !
Hi guys. Hope you are all well and have been enjoying the recent decent weather.
Little update. No income for about 2 months now. Money for clothes and stuff I had now gone, though not on clothes and stuff! Got a roof, I am eating, not as well as usual, but eating I am. Family and friends being great about it. Thankful for that.
It has been a couple of weeks since they received the letter at Glasgow, so today I gave them a ring.
What happens when you opt for a reconsideration?
Let me tell you what i was told today…Your JC branch deals with it!
Glasgow sent it to the JC and apparently they send it back to the same DM office that dealt with you originally, despite already having read your response and imposing the sanction! Even for two doubts that should have been rejected upon reading my responses! What a crock of shit.
So, it could potentially be exactly the same idiot reconsidering. Hmmm? What will the response be, what with ego and all that jazz? Though you never know!
I’m not holding out much hope, so therefore it’s more time and form filling etc etc etc. To appeals and beyond!
But the thing is… What with that letter we all got, which was a waste of paper really. The thing is that I will probably ultimately fail simply because they have for us all the solution to our sanction woes. And that would be comply, comply, comply.
Comply with me, comply comply away
If you could use some exotic booze
After a farflung intensive jobsearch session
Comply with me and we ‘may’ take your sanction away (When we deem fit)
Comply with me, comply comply today
But only if we can ‘agree’ an alternative mandatory activity as per the guidelines.
A fairer, less excessive activity with a defined end date to the activity, none of that ongoing bollocks.
The jobcentre have sent it back to the DM. I have been given a reference number for this and i was told i can expect to wait 2-4 weeks for a reply. So I wait another 2 weeks. I really cannot be bothered dealing with the JC. Just let ’em get on with it. For now.
Take care people.
.
Hi Mr No, Sorry to hear no good news for you, Good to hear you have a good family who are able to support you for the time been.
The whole WP situation is a joke, Just received a new Sanction Doubt for an apparent missed appointment in June and its took them 2 months to tell me about it.
Get 1 sanction gone and another hits the door.
Know for a fact I never got an appointment for that date through the post and the silly cow who is my adviser has made a real mistake by saying it was verbally informed to me.
I record each and every interview on my hidden camera, Just compiling them all onto DVD now as
proof shes a laying cunt.
Shes done this on purpose cause she got a claim for £1000 off me and will now be getting another claim and I will take her to court now as she has really pissed me off big time, Nice and friendly all the time but 2 faced behind ya back.
Have emailed Ingeus director and made a formal complaint against her and sorting a complaint for ICE too over her blatant lies, DVD will prove no appointment was instructed.
Really think its time to hand in my green book and tell em where to go, Had enough the stress is just too much for the little amount you get and all the shit we have to go through now.
Get a job as self employed and no way on earth will anyone get any payments,Tax or insurance can fuck themselves, Complete joke, better off in a savings account for when you do require it and no hoops to jump through.
Got my camping trip on Monday for 2 whole weeks (if we last that long without home comforts) hopefully have some peace from all this stuff.
I like yourself Mr No have a good family and will not starve, Not got a lot of my computer equipment left from when I was working but EBaying it will bring in some pennies if really needed.
Lets hope this sanction doubt is also turned down and she loses her job for telling porkies.
George
Hi George. Enjoy your holiday, hope you get some nice weather.
Sorry to hear about everybody’s trials and tribulations. I too have received a sanction doubt letter from A4greed. This alleges non-attendance at an appointment that I actually attended! Do these people have targets for raising sanction doubts or what?
Fortunately I signed the register (both in and out), I also signed for travel expenses and I recorded the appointment. Hopefully all of this will be enough to get the doubt thrown out but why should we have to deal with all this crap?
The doubt was raised by a my new”advisor” who I haven’t met yet (previous one left). I am looking forward to our first meeting (not till end Sept) when I will postulate:
“I can think of only 2 reasons why you would raise a sanction doubt for non-attendance when I did attend: 1. Total incompetence and 2. Malice. Which of these two is responsible?”
Have a look at the ASA website tomorrow (Weds) for info on A4greed adjudication(s).
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications.aspx
also see the informally resolved cases tab.
Enjoy
Sorry to hear that, Gissa.
One of my sanctions was/is for non attendance on a day I was there.
I still got sanctioned!
In my reconsideration letter i suggested that my name would be in the register. Also that i had paperwork with my advisers hand written instructions on it. I forgot about the travel receipt. I’ll use that info too if unsuccessful.
This really should be overturned. If you are there for the date the letter states the doubt refers to! FFS!
Targets? Considering it’s an adviser you haven’t met yet….?
Hmmm? Yeah, targets! Nasty government endorsed profit driven psychopaths.
I also record everything. But I keep that back for when they start lying and denying. That and if things get to appeal and a last ditch attempt may be required. Especially pertinent with regard to the appointment where they issued this mandatory activity.
And… Especially as i have been told that one needs to provide more info… More than what you have already provided, one needs to add weight to their defence, m’lud.
Fucking joke! Hence i always hold back a little. Though in reality one has a right of appeal and I think they may use this nugget to put some off.
More info or not I will demand to have my appeal that is (supposedly) impartial. Or less biased? Hmmm?
I don’t think they want us working, they want us all mad and engaging in crime. Or to simply be their slaves. A job? Yeah, be right nice if there were more than about 2 per fortnight in my 90 minute travel time that were decent and suitable. A job? An interview might be a nice day out!
There is no way they are going to overturn my 26 week on reconsideration, this will be needing the appeal. I’m going for it all to be retracted (?) due to the bullshit and over zealous and totally unprofessional behaviour by multiple staff at my pimp branch.
Lol. that should be fun. I could use a good legal eagle right about now. You can only do so much yourself.
Good luck Gissa. Keep us informed.
Sorry to hear about everybody, it seems, troubles.
So far I have been lucky but I need to be as I do not have friends or family in a position to help.
Do anyone know of a flowchart somewhere on the net on how practically deal with sanction doubts? I mean step one -> reconsideration, forms to request, times it takes etc.; step 2-> and so forth?
Everybody stay strong, they aims at squashing us but we must find a way to hit back and survive.
Given that these things and their administration seems to be entirely at the whim of people paid to be wankers I don’t think appealing to reason and procedure is going to help. About the only thing you can do is keep a paper trail, record everything and have evidence. These people are just cunts.
Hey Marcus.
I don’t think there is a way to practically deal with sanction doubts.
That would suggest that we are dealing with a fair and decent system.
Sanctioning should really only be used in extreme circumstances like fraud (and i don’t mean your average claimant doing a favour for a few quid here and there) i mean piss taking fraud.
That and perhaps the really lazy fuckers with no health issues who just don’t turn up to sign on and suchlike.
Sanctions are now simply compliance tools and punishment for anything some pimp idiot regards as a ‘crime’. The black box approach. What next? The black hat?
Don’t want to be a commodity? Don’t want to starve? Then do as we say, whenever we say.
It’s a dictatorship Jim, but not as we know it.
Thanks Mr. No.
I will keep the recording (and its existence) up my sleeve until such time as it’s needed. Until then I hope that they’re in a hole and still digging!
“Improving People’s Lives” indeed!! How does it improve anyone’s life by cheating them out of their meagre living income?
Meanwhile a small success on the ASA fron with both the Guardian and The Express reporting the ASA adjudication on the “Social Purpose comapny” Enemma Doublespeak.
http://www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2012/8/A4e-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_193333.aspx
That one’s on me!
Excellent.
Had they had on their website – “We are a for profit company that preys on the unemployed” – they might have got away with it. Lol.
Hi guys.
Just updating… My second letter of complaint has been acknowledged by the pimp and have received what I imagine is a rather standard response. I will apparently receive a full response within 5 working days,
They apologise (fuck your apology!) that I ‘feel’ that the service received ‘falls short of expectations’ (well, actually no, i expected to be treated like shit!) and they have noted all the points made. They ‘can assure me that they will be contacting my adviser to check the support I have received’ etc. Hmmm? Not very reassuring.
That’s assuming my adviser is still there, would be good if they had left, but my adviser will probably be there. My letter was detailed and accurate, should they start lying and digging a hole then that would be interesting. They’ll squirm and wriggle like the snakes they are and try to blind me with bullshit. Probably.
‘My Pimp is actively working to improve service levels and my feedback has proved to be invaluable’. Yeah right. How so?
I await this ‘full response’ with interest. I expect it simply to be them stating something along the lines of comply and we will get your sanction lifted.
They cannot admit being in the wrong can they now. That’s where a tribunal will be needed.
Let battle commence. Or robust negotiations at least.
I’m still waiting for a response to my reconsideration letter. I’ll give that two weeks and then talk to my JC to see what’s happening should no response be forthcoming.
The job market is pathetic. I’m still looking, hoping etc, but to no avail. Fuck these idiots, the real world just doesn’t seem to exist for these people. Though I reckon it does. they know full well what they are doing. Nasty business.
Take care people.
Hi Mr. No
I too decided to fire off a letter of complaint. Although I have not yet been notified by JCP of any sanction action I did get a pimp letter stating that they had raised a sanction doubt for my alledged non attendance. I decided to get my retaliation in early and wrote a formal complaint to pimp with a copy to JCP requesting that they refuse the sanction request (since I actually attended the alleged non-attended appointment).
My first meeting with new “advisor” should be a riot –
Me -“so just let me check bere – are you the [name} that wrote this letter?
pimp….. “Yes”
Me – “So you are trying to get my total income removed for a period of up to 6 months on a totally erroneous or malicious basis?”
pimp….”errrrr!”…..
Me “which is it – malice or incompetance?”
pimp “errrr?!”
Me “And now you expect me to co-operate with you????!”
The JCP staffs’ reaction to my question about how I should deal with the sanction doubt was amusing. They were practically queuing up to tell me that this sort of thing happens all the time and that I should kick up all the fuss that I could with a complaint to pimp. The smirks were visible and many. I feel there is no love lost between pimp and JCP.
Mr No & Gis,
I admire your pugnacious spirit and only wish there were more like you.
I concur however with Mr No when it says “That’s where a tribunal will be needed”. The pimps/slavers have no real interest in even going through the motion of correcting an obvious mistake, simply because there is no negative consequences for them. Similarly the JCP, will only disapprove the entitlements doubt raised by the pimps, that have no evident legal bases (like “it refused to sign the sharing of data consent form” or “didn’t provided CV”) that I am sure are the bulk of the refused doubts. The pimps work on a string budget and surely do not train their stuff. Why should they? They work like a call centre, banking on the number of their victims to produce a statistical result. The advisers that produce, by any means, are retained the others are replaced. No time here for silly and expensive training in law fine points’. The pimps are penalised for not delivering, not for the means they use!
As for the lower ranks of the JCP people I suspect that now even them start feeling the way the wind blows, with more and more of their functions contracted out.
I would concentrate on the Tribunal option and use all the rest as a corollary to the main arguments to be presented there.
People stay strong and help others by keeping all the rest of us informed. Soon enough will be our turn too.
Points taken. I am normally one for a quiet life but these bastards have got me annoyed. I intend to go on annoying them to the maximum of my ability.
Maybe I should also ask -“How does removing someone’s sole source of income for up to 6 months improve their life?”
lol Gissajob, that’s a good question, fantastic actually. What, do you think I am some sort of genius or something lol Lots of love and kisses Emmaxxxx
Hey Gissa.
I’m still waiting for replies to both pimp complaint and my ‘reconsideration’ letter.
In my complaint to pimp I made the statement “Having no income is a rather difficult situation in every way, how it is meant to help me attain employment I struggle to see”.
Of course, we already know their mindset on this. But I couldn’t resist.
I also ‘politely requested’ that they should stop raising sanction doubts seeing as sensible resolution is now being sought.
If they are on the ball I should be receiving the ‘full response’ I previously mentioned sometime this week.
Ho Mr. No,
I hope I’m wrong but I have a horrible suspicion that we are making the mistake of assuming we are dealing with rational human beings.
I’m waithing for the responses to my complaint to Pimpo Inc. and my letter to JCP. Guess they’re in no hurry.
good evening all ,
looks like they could fill a few vancancies at the jcp/dwp & post office…seems there’s a few of us waiting for replies for various things and they must be very very busy because there not very good at replying are they ?.im waiting for a reply to my sanction…which is now spent which i appealed and filled a hardship form in too….nooooo reply,so i write another letter asking if my letter has been received….nooooo reply ,waste of time going into my signing office because it’s from the bdc and they’ll only fob me off with “it’s not dealt with at the office” ,soooo another letter was sent last week…..nooooo reply , well i tell a lie i had a letter which i thought was a reply but was a waste of paper telling me i can claim again !??? must be the automatic robot you know the one they blame when they fuck the simplest of things up ! .i will say im sarcastic has hell in my letters….but i don’t really care :) oooh and im waiting for a reply from the pimp but we know how inept they are so i’ll give them till 2013 for a reply lol
i must add my “crime” took place in june ,pimpy never contacted me, i’ve been multiple times since
dwp wrote to me near the end of july and they sanction me before the date on the letter !
Hi dexter.
Lol, Your little rant above was amusing. And quite accurate too, for many.
First I knew about my sanction ‘journey’ (?) was when my money wasn’t there one week. I got the brown envelope in the mail a few days later. Although I knew I would be sanctioned, it was still quite an experience to think they finally did it. There then followed a lot more brown envelopes. Ha! They seem to have stopped arriving, for now at least.
Well, I am serving the maximum sentence, possibly? ‘Please sir, can i have some more?’. Ah, bollocks to ’em.
We have to retain a sense of humour, we must!
Always try to laugh, have a giggle. A smile at least, every day.
I have bad days, but I will be damned if these fuckers are going to wipe the smile off my face. No fucking way, my stress levels are all over the place enough. So therefore enough is enough.
I have a roof and a meal, family and a couple of good friends left. So, easy for me to say, perhaps? But it’s still of relevance, whatever your situation.
Stay strong folks.
Did you manage to get hardship payments?
I have to confess that I thought they had been scrapped years ago in exchange for discretionary loans. But apparently I was misinformed.
Since the “rediscovery” I come across someone that have been refused them but I was wandering if you have succeeded.
As for the lack of reply (obviously they hope that the claimant will starve to death in the meantime) what about:
Financial Redress for Injustice
Resulting from Maladministration
Special Payment Scheme:
Policy and Guiding Principles
Complaint Resolution Standards Team
November 2009
ISBN: 978-1-84947-127-5
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dwp.gov.uk%2Fdocs%2Ffinancial-redress-for-maladministration.pdf&ei=7OdHULXdGsWw0QWugYGIDg&usg=AFQjCNHwXkLGv5p4rulNWh3My7bnqiVMCQ&sig2=EXE2bVBmdiv1a5byZuv38g
Outrageous!!! Dexter21 “im waiting for a reply to my sanction…which is now spent ” So theoretically they could suspend the lot of us for ever and ever. Don’t they have some statutory limit of time in which they have to reply?
hi everybody,
thanks for the messages ,seems alot of people are waiting for reply’s hey ! think i might start sending them to the “returns” address in belfast…they’ll probley get there quicker……i don’t doubt they get there anyway i just think they ignore us…which i think needs looking into.can a government department just choose to ignore the people in which they are payed by to do there job ? …not that i vote ! , well i have ink,paper & stamps. it looks like another letter it’s been a week since my last one and the address is less than 10 miles from me ,and there 4 page letter telling me i could now reclaim (thanks ever so much) took a week to arrive from the date on the letter….surely *cough* they don’t lie on dates ? .im thinking of glitter for my next envelope seeing has neon didn’t work lol . yes you have to retain a sense of humour mr no don’t let the bastards grind us down !.thanks for the info MySurreySquarePark i’ll look into that .marcus i would have thought that too,when they ask you for a reply by a date i should think it works both ways ?.i’ve been wondering should we send letters saying we own tax and were should we send it to will we get reply’s within the week lol. on another note pimpy head office were sent a letter too im not expecting them to reply.if it wasn’t for the flexible signing now i’d be telling my advisor/gimp/chimp/muppet …..”that im terribly sorry my job search is a lil on the low side this time but a big chunk of my times is taken up writing letters a blind dog in yorkshire…they fuckin might has well be !! lol
toodle pip :)
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